Aggregators – not brokers – are on the endangered species list, says broker

By Jill Fraser for Lending Central

Melbourne-based broker Daniel Thorpe, Managing Director Thorpe Financial Services Pty Ltd says; “in the coming New World it will only require a minor shift in lenders’ policies to do away with aggregators”.

Thorpe contacted Lending Central and offered to put forward the broker’s perspective regarding the changing market.

He maintains that the broker perspective is constantly being trivialised as “whinging”. His argument is that the opposite is true - brokers are adapting to change but not so lenders and aggregators to anywhere near the same extent.

“It’s becoming increasingly clear to me that aggregators - the middlemen - are the one part of the equation that could disappear,” he says.

“The banks have established individual criteria. Their rules vary but essentially they all state that unless brokers submit a specified number of loans a quarter they’ll lose their accreditation.

“There goes the whole point of being with an aggregator!”

Thorpe, who boasts 40 years in the industry - 10 as a broker and prior to that as the Consumer Marketing Manager for a major bank, where he was heavily involved in setting up the broker processing centre, reviewing credit policy and was “pretty much the first major bank broker BDM” - has seen it all from both sides over a long period of time.

He contends that once the bean counters work out that aggregators cost anywhere up to 50% of the commission outlay (the middleman’s cut) a new model that goes directly to a lender/broker relationship (as many non-bank lenders already do) can give brokers a pay rise and reduce overall commission costs by chopping out the middleman, which means good night Irene to aggregators.

Thorpe believes that banks will retain the broker channel because it involves too much market share and for many second tier lenders it is their sole distribution channel.

“What they are doing is engaging in a round of cost cutting (10 years ago the marketers ran the channel, now the accountants are taking over). They are attacking the brokers directly as they are seen as the most vulnerable. This action is essentially the first move to making aggregators irrelevant,” he says.

“The fact is that the small businessman broker does all the selling and owns the customer, needs to be covered for everything from lender accreditation, insurance, dispute resolution and very soon licensing (already the case in WA) and has an outlay on these costs and compulsory memberships etc of in excess of $5000pa before a single loan is written.

“The broker carries the channel in partnership with lenders product offerings. No brokers, no channel.”

Thorpe wonders who owns the trail books now that lenders are establishing agreements directly with brokers and bypassing aggregators.

“Are they owned by the banks, the aggregators or the brokers,” he asks.

The industry is morphing into new models and Thorpe forecasts that these new scenarios will see banks making increasingly more deals directly with brokers.

“They can just pay brokers the money and effectively brokers become lending managers for any numbers of banks,” he says.

The provision of lending software, which is currently provided by aggregators, could easily be accessed through a hiring facility set up specifically for this purpose.

He raised three issues about which he’d appreciate feedback:

1) Why aggregators are mentioned in the MFAA Constitution but only sparsely in the MFAA Code. “Are they covered by the Code,” he queries.
2) Why the Annual Average Percentage rate, which is now enshrined in the new legislation, isn’t scrapped. “It’s an impossible sum and allows crooks to put anything they like there. The MFAA and the lenders should have told the government to forget it. Handing a customer a CRS form is about as useful and accurate as handing them a Nigerian oil scam letter - both are about wishful thinking and dream fulfilment, not reality,” he says.
3) Why loan reduction schemes are permitted to exist. “They’re a complete straight rip off,” he declares. “Any half-way competent broker can explain mortgage reduction in two minutes at no cost to the customer.”

31 Comments

Graeme Kluck July 10, 2009

Daniel Thorpe is spot on concerning mortgage reduction schemes, why people payout money to explore these products is totally beyond me and Iagree they should be banned in the marketplace.

broker in the burbs July 10, 2009

If some banks / lenders continue to take equity positions in aggregation firms (or buy them out lock, stock and barrel, then I can’t see them (aggregators) going anywhere. Banks don’t buy businesses with an expectation to see them just ‘fade’ away.

Banks/lenders will simply own that part of the distribution margin (Vertical integration). Then, just wait for it. Bank/lender owned aggregators will impose additional volume constraints, charge more for the service, manipulate the lending panel offered for a host of competitive reasons etc etc.

The banks are running amok in a competitive vacuum that’s all.

Politicians don’t like ‘em. The general public don’t like ‘em. Brokers don’t like ‘em. Their staff don’t like ‘em.

Popular boys & girls eh?

Milton July 10, 2009

I couldn’t agree more with Daniel Thorpe that Aggregators may be an endangered species as one looks at the value chain, is it not better for larger broker groups to go direct to a handful of lenders.

There is no doubt the major banks are flexing their muscles requiring brokers to maintain a level of business in order to retain accreditations. Recently I lost accreditation with Westpac and intially was rather miffed but when I sat back and remembered the harrowing service expiriences my clients and my business were subjected to, I thought who cares? If anyone talks Westpac I simply tell them my stories of the past and that I no longer have accreditations due to not sending clients to them in view of…..have had no problems moving them to lenders who provide service to my business.

I’ve been wondering about this qualifier requirement to retain accreditation. We are with one of the major aggregators and paid a fee for the franchise. It was on the understanding that they offered my business the ability to be accredited with 20+ lenders and to write business with them. Now if the lenders want a certain level of business for the brokers to retain their accreditation, then IS THIS NOT A FORM OF THIRD LINE FORCING? This would be a very good one to take up with the COMPETITION WATCHDOG namely ASIC. Do we see the aggregators trying to negotiate with the lenders about this issue? Scared to try! and hence what value are they now?

Just some thoughts on a Friday afternoon!

Geoff July 10, 2009

I agree with Daniel about aggregators - if brokers have to deliver volumes to individual banks; aggregators are worthless.

On mortgage reduction, see the MFAA guidelines - now Code of Practice. Great doc explaining proper practices and dispelling myths. Mortgage Reduction is referred to as Interest Minimisation, but the MFAA has failed miserably in promoting it. The Government seems to have failed here also. There is great merit Daniel when the subject is properly understood and actioned responsibly.

Ritchie McGuinness July 10, 2009

At last someone that talks common sense…thank you Daniel Thorpe. It is about time our aggregators did what they were paid for, get out there and represent their brokers who are paying them to keep our accreditations in place, training up to date and as a group deliver sufficient deals to each lender so that we may maintain choice for our clients without having to give each a minimum amount of deals each month. If they can’t do that they should be bypassed or at a minimum reduce their fees to be commensurate with the value they are now giving.

Insofar as to ‘Mortgage Reduction Specialists’ they should never have been allowed in the industry nor been allowed to charge their excessive fees….quite simply as Daniel points out it takes 2 minutes to explain to clients how to pay their loans back quicker.

Rachel July 10, 2009

It seems interesting to me that we are all now thinking about the value of the aggregator group we belong to. Have the banks found another way to disrupt the industry? If we get rid of Aggregators, how easy would it be for the lenders to keep moving the goal posts until no broker group can meet the requirements. On the other hand, I believe the Aggregators are not using the unique positions they have with strength of numbers to take action on this point. Do something! We are ticked enough to support action!

With the statistics that have been provided to us, these new rules by the banks are likely to close down a significant number of individual brokers - do we have a case for a complaint to VECCI or a similar group - isnt this a restraint of trade? Doesn’t this prevent customer choice?

Retired Broker July 10, 2009

The Mortgage Reduction Specialist, the fees some charge are outrageous.
If you are one of those brokers who is prepared to help educate the client, you will find it does take more then a few minutes.
We seem to have turned our attack from the Banks to the Aggregators.
At training days I have listened to the BDM for the aggregators “beg almost” to their brokers, “please support the other Lenders”.
All you hear from the Brokers is excuses why they don’t/can’t. I suspect it is to much effort to learn what the others have to offer.
Clients who are placed away from the Big Four are generally happier clients, so why not keep these other lenders in mind. Their are other lenders who are more then competitive with the majors.
If the big four were only getting their normal share of business you would not be experiencing this present Drama

Andrew Hunter July 10, 2009

I agree many aggregators are headed the way of the Dodo but the banks are not going to deal with 10,000 brokers. The result will probably be four (a familiar number) aggregators each majority owned by a major lender and maybe 3,000 brokers who will be no more than licensed agents for one product line up - very similar to what has happened to financial planners.

oldBroker July 10, 2009

> but the banks are not going to deal with 10,000 brokers.

Why not? They do this now. They receive applications from each of these 10,000; they calculate commissions individually to each broker based on star-value, quality criteria, etc.; they now maintain broker accreditations based on individual volumes; some lenders now have different LVR limits based on the individual broker.
To me, the only reason aggregators existed was because previously the lender back-end loan-processing and commission systems were not robust enough to segregate down to the individual broker. Now they are…

BBB July 10, 2009

A great thought, cannot see the aggregators going anywhere, one BDM from each bank to service the aggregator, one commission payment monthly , one contract ect costs would be horrific if the banks chose to deal with us individually , that is why the aggregators have got the base they have.

What we need to do is urge, bully, what ever , the aggregator we deal with to become relevant and assertive in their dealings with the banks and also support them in using the Non bank lenders on their panels , don,t kick the aggregators , make them earn their money, demand excellence, and KICK THE BANKS WHERE IT HURTS THE MOST as brokers withdraw your support every opportunity you get.When they start to lose market share they will take some notice of us. DON”T DEAL WITH THE BANK YOU ALWAYS BE BOLD CHANGE & SECURE THE FUTURE OF OUR INDUSTRY !!!!

A Thought July 10, 2009

Maybe after reading this, aggregators will think about finding ways to actually add value instead of just deducting a margin. It’s a pity they weren’t proactive, instead of reacting from fear now.

Marcus July 10, 2009

Could this be “divide & conquer”??? on the part of the Majors.

Michael July 10, 2009

As a small broker I have been happy with my Aggregator.
They add value by providing software at no cost, professional development days at no cost, and their BDM provides advice when I might be struggling to find an appropriate lender for a peculiar situation.
Some aggregators press for volumes, whereas mine does not, and yet I believe I get a very fair share of the commission.

Having said that I am now very disappointed that I have been dumped by a couple of the majors due to lack of volume, and even a threat from a bank that depends entirely on brokers for support!!! Surely the main reason for being with an aggregator is so that they can aggregate volumes for the lenders!

I have another arrangement with a bank that was not on my aggregator’s panel. The arrangement was set up with no hassle. The volume I put through them is VERY small, and the trail payments are VERY VERY small.
And yet this bank can deal direct, keep me posted on developments, send me a detailed commission statement every month, and pay the commissions into my account each month.

So, it is with this latter experience in mind that I also wonder if the current upheaval is really an attack on the aggregators as much as the small broker.

Peter July 10, 2009

I have thought for some time that once the banks start insisting on individual targets for brokers there is not much point to an aggregator except for one or two issues. I think the aggregators still get a better commission arrangement than individuals but not sure how long that will last. Aggregators also generally provide software as part of the deal but with the advent of independent software developers such as Solution4 and a couple of others offering state of the art software to individual brokers I am not sure what the aggregators role may be in the future. If commissions equalise and brokers purchase their own software the scene will definitely change. Under the new regulations as long as a broker is licenced and has enough loan options (they don’t need 30 or 40)to offer a client they may not need an aggregator. Macquarie is probably the template of the future in that they will own 4 or 5 aggregators and eventually sideline or remove the managers, standardise the software and deal with the individual brokers.

Daniel Thorpe July 10, 2009

Marcus
I have read with interest and am gratified by the support shown for the future iteration of the Broker Channel.
Your comment about “divide and conquer by the Majors” is typical of the red herrings that get dragged across the trail every time Brokers look to their future business. I suspect that Marcus may even be a pseudonym for an Aggregator (see how easy it is to blacken comments)
The simple fact is that Brokers source the customer, look after the customers best interests in obtaining a loan. The Lender provides the product that the customer takes. It is that simple. Where do Aggregators(middlemen, the source of the GFC) fit into this scenario.
Old Broker summed it up very well. The Banks can deal with us as individuals( as they are already doing with their number of deals propositions) so that arguement is killed forever.
Lets use an analogy. You are a house painter that paints one house per week, sourcing your own customers. You buy all of your paint from a wholesaler. One week you go to the wholesaler who tells you if you want to buy black, white , red, blue or yellow paint you have to buy at least 1000 litres per order. In fact the only paint you can buy in smaller quantities is pink. What to you do?? Either find a new wholesaler who will supply you with the colours you want in the quantities you want or you by-pass the wholesaler and buy direct from a manufacturer. Of course you could also tell all of your customers that they had better get used to pink.
Aggregators at the moment are very deep shade of pink. If they can’t add value to the channel, then they should vacate the channel.
It is as simple as that.

Scott Beattie July 11, 2009

My question is and always will be - if you leave an aggregator, why does the trail not follow you to your next aggregator?

I have heard time & time again that aggregators understand that clawbacks have to exist, yet they are not really subject to it when a cusotmer (ie the broker) leaves?

Why does the aggregator retain the trail payments? The book should simply move to the new aggregator.

We have 2 x aggegators- 1 on a 90/10 and the other on a flat fee. Our 90/10 wears a clawback if a lender claws me back, yet the flat fee model does not refund their UpF fee out of the payment?

For the comment that suggests banks couldn’t pay us all - why not? They deal with thousands of customers and have programs that work out volume hurdles, conversion rates etc etc - are you telling me that they couldn’t make a payment to a broker’s account each month?

Aggregators need to offer a significant benefit as their com structures all now appear to very similar (ie what the banks pay them) - it’s just the broker’s split that appears to differ.

Andrew Hunter July 11, 2009

I didn’t say the banks couldn’t deal with 10,000 brokers - I said they won’t. They will control a few super aggregators and that will be the ball game. If they get their way.

Savvy Investor July 13, 2009

HI All,

I have been posting the Aggregator is the real target for weeks now, this should hardly be news to anyone. Nice to know some now agree this is the case… I was also one of the posters that proposed that if aggregators were broker owned (non-profit) and could not be bought by Lenders then that is the only model likely to survive whilst still keeping their clients as the primary focus, In my view this has not changed. Perhaps one of the current Aggregators should consider selling themselves off to the brokers that help fund it whilst they still have a value proposition? Individual brokers could not (IMHO) survive long as they would lack the cohesion, power and resources to stay viable in the industry.

As a person who help design and implement one of the major banks systems for 8 years, I can tell you that one or one million brokers will not matter once the system is live. The argument that they can not deal on an individual basis is truly out of step with the technology. Each loan is still individually assessed and the docs done regardless of who introduced it into their systems. It is not difficult to put a program around the introducer to action a broker/other referrer as opposed to an internal staff member or the direct client and have the system pay each month the appropriate sum to the appropriate accounts and spit out the reports. That is what the Banks do best, that is their entire value proposition - transactions! They can then determine volumes and anything else they wish to ‘target’ and get you working harder to give them the kind of business they currently have an appetite for. As for liking or otherwise it is purely a value proposition, they will always opt for the cheapest and simplest operational model. If it is an aggregator then that is what they will favour, if something cheaper comes along they will quickly adapt, as any good business should.

English Bob July 13, 2009

“My question is and always will be - if you leave an aggregator, why does the trail not follow you to your next aggregator?

I have heard time & time again that aggregators understand that clawbacks have to exist, yet they are not really subject to it when a cusotmer (ie the broker) leaves?”

Why does the aggregator retain the trail payments? The book should simply move to the new aggregator

Good questions Scott….try asking the MFAA President, a Mr J Symond. He’s the biggest hijacker of trail in the insustry.

Brokers unite July 13, 2009

Andrew Hunter and Daniel Thorpe…. agree entirely. Daniel’s second comment certainly puts things in perspective. I have been saying for years that we must be the only industry that sells its direct competitors product. We need to find a new manufacturer. I know there are many deals that because of mortgage insurance hinderance can only be done by banks. . But I think we would give a better customer experience referring them direct to a branch manager. As least we may get their contact details and use them as a referral source. Because this is where the Banks are hurting us the most - our repeat business. Aggregators are still blind to this. Mortgage Managers provide better service, better commission and answer the phone!

Milton July 13, 2009

I’ve been following this article and comments with interest because it is not only about aggregators but about the future for brokers.

How about some thinking outside the square for the aggregator. What if each aggregator had it’s brokers submit loans directly to them. The aggregator then runs a service of tendering the loans to all lenders who compete for the client via the aggregator.

Under such a method the lender then has to source the business from the aggregators buy tendering? With modern technology and the lenders requiring everything to go on line then such a system has some merit?

Such a move would see the whole ball game change and brokers would no longer be at the mercy of the lenders

Just a thought!

A July 13, 2009

Love it Milton!! But the Aggregators would then have to work for their commission cuts which they presently don’t have to lift a finger to get. Can’t see them being too eager unfortunately.

KeyMan July 13, 2009

Milton -I think you miss the point about client’s choice - well I think it is important.

Milton July 13, 2009

Keyman, I don’t disagree with you but having been at this now for some years the more I stay in it the more I realise that customers in most instances will throw choice out the window if they are afforded a very competitive rate!

The guts of this talkfeast as I understand is the future of aggregators and brokers and my idea of a tendering system changes the bank power dynamics

KeyMan July 13, 2009

But then aren’t we redundant - aggregators could sell direct to the public

Milton July 13, 2009

Keyman, no you would not be redundant, you would simply manage your book of customers in the same manner or more closely going forward. As a third party introducer you take the position of owning the client not the lender. You still take a generic application and once a lender puts up their hand for the business you would process in the same manner. This is a process the major banks would not like!

This approach is already used overseas and again I only threw it in the ring as an out of right field idea for aggregators to consider.

Gordo July 13, 2009

OK EVERYONE!!!

Think about this way, if every small broker went direct to the bank and did away with their aggregator. The ‘lender’ would pick up the aggregator split. Now let’s say the small broker only earns $50k after an 80/20 split. That is now an additional $12,500 p.a. that the lender will receive for processing commission splits on 3 deals a month. I am sure that they can employ one person and if that person only processes 2 payments per hour, then the lender will generate $1,390,277.70 and payout a wage of $60k… It is economically viable for the lender to deal direct and do away with the aggregators. Then they will diminish the potential level of opposition for future changes/penalties against the broker.

Under new proposed legislation, the MFAA and FBAA accreditation will be obsolete. As ASIC will govern and enforce broker qualifications and conduct. I expect these organisations to lose over 60% of membership revenue. What real benefit can they justify to us to stay with them. By their current inabilities to combat lender reaccreditation changes, I think none.

To the older brokers… Your succession planning just died before your eyes! The concept of sitting back, servicing your trail book and touring the country no longer go hand in hand. If you are not active daily then your accreditations will fall off and you will need to either join a group or pay for reaccreditation every time a client wishes to make an up stamp (probably more than the commission you will make on the up stamp). In turn your trail book sale just lost majority of its calculated value. The stock market was not the only thing to crash recently!

Why do people kid themselves and think that their aggregator will enforce their original promise and show real support. If you lose your lender accreditation, you then have to place that business elsewhere and the aggregator has not lost anything and will still receives a split on that business regardless of where you place it. Whilst we lose an accreditation there is a larger brokerage firm making far more profit from that lender for our aggregator? So why would an aggregator, really go in and bat for us and bite the bigger hand that feeds them!

Gordo July 13, 2009

What we really need to do is renegotiate our commission splits with our aggregators as they are doing less for the same income from us. Jumping ship may hold no benefit so why don’t we smaller brokers group together and push for a 15% increase in earnings from our aggregators. A 95/5 split is achievable if we are prepared to adopt an new common front image profile and work as a new group under it. Whilst we lose accreditations individually, someone else in the new group may not have and can place that business with the lender. Thus the clients still has choice and churning is avoided. Win win all round. Plus a better commission proposition. We control our destiny, why hold on to our individual business identity if it is heading down the plug hole. Let’s just make hay while the sun is still shining and protect not only our interests but more importantly those of our clients!

Gordo July 13, 2009

If a broker submits 3 deals to a bank and can write only a 95% LVR application and another broker submits 4 deals and can write a 90% LVR application because he/she has a better understanding and QUALITY of submission (this qualifier is wrought with danger) then surely the clients are the ones to suffer! Can and should we advertise that this week we can write a 95% LVR unlike ABC pty ltd. This is ridiculous and must breach some form of fair trading practice. For clients to be penalised by a lender’s ranking approach of the broker is in poor form and clients at large should be made aware of lender policies and lack of ethical conduct effecting their interests.

Volume has no bearing on submission quality, it is more likely that someone submitting fewer deals has more time to prepare and submit those applications. NOTE TO THE LENDERS: Pull your heads out of the clouds and put them together, then you might come up with a sound idea.

Gordo July 13, 2009

WHOOPS!!! Sorry previous post should state… 3 for 90% and 4 for 95%

Broker in the 'burbs July 14, 2009

Good on you Wayne Ormond of Refund Home Loans…

Aggregators take note about how Wayne has rattled the CBA’s cage. He’s taken the CBA to task about volume for accreditation to the ACCC (who told him exactly what they told me - all is OK) however the mainstream media have picked up on this issue.

I’ve just heard the issue (CBA / Accreditation / Volume) being discussed on ABC radio (not the widest of audiences I’ll concede) however, the more scrutiny focussed on the business practices of these lenders the better.

The angle Wayne presents is what we’ve all been saying in that accreditation for volume is simply a way to drive business into the CBA’s door & is counterproductive to a properly researched and compliant industry sector. The consumer will be the loser if the CBA juggernaut is left unchecked.

Anyway, here is an example of a broker group or aggregation group (Refund Home Loans) who have actually spoken up about what’s been going on.

So Aggregators, where are the rest of you and why haven’t you hollered from the rooftops as Wayne has?

Mmmmhhh??

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