Aggregators caught between a rock and a hard place says Connective’s Mark Haron

Mark Haron, Connective PrincipalBy Jill Fraser for Lending Central

In the second interview in our series on aggregators Lending Central spoke to Connective Principal, Mark Haron and learned that it’s not only brokers who are experiencing frustration.

Haron says he is acutely aware of the issues facing brokers and agrees that much of the anger and concern is justified.

“The problem is that at the moment banks are not overly keen to lend a lot of money and when they do their lending policies are very restrictive,” he says.

“Their knee jerk reaction has been to minimise both lending and broker relationships, at the same time maintaining an element of business through areas they think are most profitable.”

Haron says it’s this response that has led to brokers no longer being treated as true business partners and to the introduction of accreditation schemes that limit dealings to brokers who do a high level of volume at higher conversions and are well versed in the respective banks’ systems and processes.

What the banks are doing is tantamount to manipulation, he asserts.

His gripe however is that “brokers are not doing enough to help themselves”, which in turn, he says, renders aggregators powerless.

“How can an aggregator go to a bank and say, we’re really unhappy with your lack of service to brokers, you need to do something about it when banks are coming back to us saying, everyone keeps sending us business so why should we do anything?

“If brokers are having issues dealing with a particular lender they should attempt to fix it either by developing a stronger relationship or going elsewhere,” he says.

Haron admits that in some cases it’s too late for the former because a number of lenders are saying that they don’t want a relationship with a particular broker regardless of what he or she does to try to salvage the situation.

He explains that Connective communicates broker problems to lenders on a one to one basis. Systemic problems take much longer to resolve, which causes “a great deal of frustration and creates a lot of additional work”.

Systemic issues include turnaround times and the measurement of certain conversion ratios and the accuracy of that conversion.

“One of the biggest issues is that there hasn’t been enough time for these things to wash through and for brokers to adjust to the banks’ new way of thinking,” he says.

“The market won’t stay like this forever. At some point the tide will come back in and most brokers will still be around doing business. Whereas a lot of the decision-makers in banks who made these rules will have moved onto other roles.

“Banks are making some very short-term decisions to maintain their profitability.”

Haron doesn’t oppose all aspects of accreditation schemes but he strongly objects to brokers being penalised for arrears on loans that were established prior to the current clauses being written.

“A loan that was written five years ago and goes into arrears today potentially results in the broker who processed the loan being prohibited from submitting new business even though that loan was written before this new structure was in place,” he says.

“Some circumstances that lead to arrears are totally unavoidable no matter what a broker or bank does in terms of the application.

“If a broker has been penalised because of one or two arrears they should be taking it up with their aggregator.”

Asked if aggregators really have any sway when it comes to bank policy Haron says. “to some extent we can alter the thinking around individual situations”.

“However when it comes to overall policy the Golden Rule applies: He who has the gold makes the rule.. and banks have all the gold.”

Amused at the suggestion that aggregators signed off on the accreditation schemes he chuckles and says: “The banks presented them to us and asked what we thought.

“We told them and they went ahead and implemented them regardless.”

His advice to brokers is to “be a lot more open and use a more diverse range of lenders”.

“A lot of brokers consistently use just one or two lenders.  It’s easier and in many cases more efficient. But these days they need to be across a lot more lenders, particularly non-banks, be a lot more adversarial for their clients and understand more what other lenders are doing.”

Asked if he thought that brokers could realistically spread their business across a range of lenders and retain the volume requirements with lenders who have imposed them Haron laughs.

“If a broker can’t settle12 loans a quarter spread around a reasonable number of banks, while maintaining the required volume for lenders who have this stipulation, he (or she) has a problem and I suggest they look at whether they belong in this industry.”

25 Comments

Tony Harris June 17, 2009

I think what Mark Haron has said makes a lot of sense.
Its good to see some common sense and straight forward advice coming
through.

Oz Boy June 17, 2009

Agree. Mark is always a pretty straight shooter but he himself has lifted his shirt up for lenders who promised and didn’t deliver. Nothing like a person shafting to bring about a bit of reality.

Daniel June 17, 2009

Well said Mark. At last someone pinpointing some of the key issues.
Except for one point. Either Aggregators have the volume requirement or Brokers do. Not both. Aggregators have allowed the Banks to make these stipulations, not Brokers.

Broker June 17, 2009

Tony OZ & Daniel you are deluded. Heron ran FAST and now Connective and signed off on lender Agreements like everyone else. Since joining the industry his sole purpose has been joining brokers up on the cheapest model and then move on. I can’t believe you’ve all fallen hook line and sinker for his spin. Bet’s that’s why I never surcumbed to his b*shit and have been with my present aggregator for 12 years.

Broker in the 'burbs June 17, 2009

So essentially what your saying is that aggregation firms are largely impotent in negotiating contractual terms with lenders.

Fair enough then. Point noted.

But I do hope you guys still managed to retain your volume overrides at the same pre GFC levels!

OK! So brokers cannot rely on aggregation firms to champion their cause, nor lenders (obviously), nor trade groups such as the FBAA or the MFAA it seems (based on the historic evidence)

Yep, got all that! We gotta do it for ourselves apparently…yep, that works…..no collective voice & muscle.

And this situation has become more pronounced since the effects of the GFC on industry participants (i.e. the loss of non bank competition)and at the same time creating an banking oligopoly, with those players creating new proprietry distribution channels, buying others, reducing distribution costs (cutting commissions) vertically integrating their operations (reducing head counts), focussing on all finanz / bancassurance strategies off the back of broker originated business and with federal government guarantees giving the punters the belief that it’s the banks or nothing…!!

And brokers should spread the love to include those lenders demanding volume minima to retain accreditation, irrespective of whether their products are competitively priced or are in fact suitable for a particular clients needs should they?

Really….that sounds awfully like anti competitive behaviour to me! Smells of market manipulation.

Why should a lender expect business if their product doesn’t stack up with another?

Louis June 17, 2009

I’m very critical of the whole industry. One minute the banks, non-banks and mortgage insurers allow every tom, dick and harry to become a broker/loan writer knowing full well they are only here to make a quick buck and leave the mess for someone else to clean up. During good times, they are all prepared to accept poor quality deals. When times get tougher, they go the opposite way.

I say, stick to the same policies during good and bad times. Stop introducing high risk loans such as 100% and LoDocs and then blame the brokers for introducing these loans.

Well said Mark Harron. It’s about time a high profile industry player came out and told the true story.

OK is it believable ? June 17, 2009

Ok some of what this bloke says makes sense , the banks are trying to slow it down , what does not make sense is that aggegators are willing to cop the spin.

What is not being looked at is there is power in Numbers , if an aggregator/s said with one common voice to the worst manipulator ( you can figure out whi it is), sorry you are off our panel/s because of your anti competative behaviour ( as PLAN did to westPac for a while) it would send a shudder through the big 4 if wew backed up the aggregators, because it would see a loss in market share , it just needs to be done with a common voice. Will the aggregators do that , probably not .

ANOTHER ALTERNATIVE is for all of us to support,where we can, the Non Bank lenders as our first choic , tell the clients why , if 50% of the brokers who are left started to do this , instant loss in market share for the bankers , have the brokers have got the GUTS to try it ? , I HOPE SO>

Xerxes June 17, 2009

Most of what Haron said seemed reasonable.

The one thing that really annoys me on individual broker volumes to lenders is, if this forced business is accepted and becomes more widespread in the industry the issue is not the 12 loans per quarter Haron chuckles about, it’s the matter of brokers being forced to recommend lenders purely on the basis of keeping accreditations.

Like most brokers, I am accredited with many lenders but rotate through these lenders based on current service levels & credit policy matters & to a lesser extent, product & pricing related issues.

The compulsion to use a lender every 3 months or so to maintain my accreditation goes against every instinct I have as a broker. If a lender hasn’t earned that customers business through good service etc it is not reasonable (or ethical) that they get the business.

Forcing volumes to maintain accreditation is very bad news for the broking industry and ultimately bad news for the customer.

Mark, thanks for having the guts to do the interview, but I find it more than a little disturbing that you don’t appear to understand how serious an issue this matter is (it’s certainly not something to laugh about). All aggregators should understand the seriousness of this issue and argue strongly on behalf of brokers & their customers & oppose in the strongest language (and actions) possible the further spread of this practice.

Bradford June 17, 2009

Sometimes in business you have to let some suppliers go. It always surprises me how little some brokers know about a range of products of other Lenders, and they will stick with the majors just because they think it is easier. Folks their are other Lenders who can do some of these loans, so give them a go. If the Banks saw a decline in the volume of business they received, they would soon change there stance.
For example be honest with the client, yes I could do that with a major but their other Lenders, and ask “would you consider this one”
You are the ones in control so use your power, let’s face it the Banks are not well liked at present.

Howard June 18, 2009

Good sentiment, Suburban Boy. Harron has identified the issue - the banks are manipulating the market. It’s good to say it, who do we say it to? Graeme Samuel??

Clearly everyone else is looking the other way.

Mick June 18, 2009

Broker in Burbs is spot on re the min. requirements. IT IS ANTI COMPETITIVE and NOT IN BEST INTEREST OF THE CLIENT. “Well Mrs. Client the reason I’m recommeding this option is that I need this to go to CBA to maintain my accreditation. Kathy Cummings what a load of bumkin that we have to be putting loans through CBA to ensure our product knowledge is up to date. With so many policy changes we need to recheck every time we submitt a loan. If a broker continually submits poor work by all means take action, but by god the banks poor service and at times incorrect information causes far more down time for brokers that submitting an extra document.

Steve Mc June 18, 2009

What a load of crap Mark!

When you start off by saying that banks don’t like to lend money (the stuff they make profit from), and then progressively blame brokers (his income source), then you have to question why he feels a need to blame everyone but for problems aggregators. Oh yeah, he is one.

Personally Mark, I thinks its the unemployed single parent dole bludging immigrants.

Next Please June 18, 2009

Position Vacant.

An aggressive Independant Aggregator that can negotiate bulk lending arrangements with non bank lenders and banks. Volumes will be met by combined production from large number of mortgage and finance brokers.
Aggregator to be responsible for quality of applications submitted through hands on training and strong quality control of brokers. In exchange the successful applicant will be well remunerated with high overide commissions plus loyalty from a professional team of highly qualified brokers.

Applications are currently being accepted in readiness for a mass exodus of brokers from their current arrangements that have been comprimised by aggressive activity from several corporate leaders.

wickedmessenger June 18, 2009

Which overrides are they broker in the burbs?

TJ June 18, 2009

Could the LC team please publish a list of Aggregators. I would like to speak with some others that may be more supportive of us and act more like a Co-Operative on our behalf. I know obviously of my current group and a couple of other bigger ones but big is not neccesarily independent or good any more.

A June 18, 2009

Broker….who is your aggregator? I too am looking to change.

Down but not Out June 18, 2009

NAB Broker sent me my new star rating today and took great pleasure in letting me know I am a 3 Star and I can submit loans up to 90% LVR. Whooppeee.. I have better arrangements elsewhere.

Dear NAB, I have great pleasure in advising you, your services are no longer required and you are hereby removed from my panel until such time as you have restored full service capability, eliminated all discriminatory accreditations and commission scales.

T June 18, 2009

What he said may make sense.

But from my experience with him, he never had the gut to speak for the brokers. All he does is to kiss banks’s ass and try to get some sponsership money from them

Aggregators need to understand their busineses are in line with brokers’ business. If they can’t fighter for brokers, their business will eventually suffer. Apparently Mark does not seem to understand it!!!

Broker in the 'burbs June 18, 2009

wickedmessenger,

Overrides eh?

Aggregators (i.e. those that can negotiate it) not only get a cut of your ‘headline’ commission (i.e. flat fee or percentage split) but also may receive ‘volume bonuses’ based on whatever KPI’s have been set and then achieved with lenders. It’s usually volume based (settled loans) but there would probably be other measures too. Stuff like retention rates / low runoff etc.

Cheers

light bulb moment June 18, 2009

I don’t understand what all the fuss is about, because you can dramatically reduce your major bank misery right now. Its like its some kind of big secret or something. All this talk of aggregators and industry bodies fixing service levels at banks, and its so much simpler than that. I’ll share it with you, because its right under your noses and obviously 95% of you haven’t noticed it yet. Its been there quite a while, staring you in the face,saying LOOK AT ME! Ready?……. Step 1. Read the Infochoice report, published this week, which shows about 60 second tier/non bank deals that are BETTER than the best deals the majors offer. That’s right…SIXTY!!! Or check out Cannex- infochoice and Cannex are both independent, They don’t care who is who. They analyse without bias. You wont find many major banks in the top spots on Cannex either. Step 2. After reading the report, decide if you are a broker or an order taker. More importantly, decide whether you actually want better service and better deals for your customers, or whether you are too lazy to be bothered, but just like a good whinge on sites like this. If you are a broker who wants to be able to offer the better deals and service to your customers,move to step 3. If you are an order taker, stop reading now. Ok, still with us? Good. Step 3. Check out the lenders involved. Get to know them a little bit. MAKE SOME EFFORT. Have they been around a while? Or are they fly by night? What sort of rates do they have? What sort of features? What sort of service/turn around times are they offering? Are their rates, products and services as good as, or better than the banks you currently send 90% plus of your deals to? I think you’ll find a lot of YES answers. Step 4- Now you know who they are and what they offer- start using them. There, that’s the secret. Now I know we cant always send all our deals to second tiers and non banks. Lets be realistic about that. Policy dictates some deals must go to the banks, but right now the non banks get about 2% of bugger all between them. There are alot more deals that we could all be sending their way. That means fewer deals going to majors, which means fewer delays for our customers, right? This is no ones responsibility but ours. Don’t pass it off as someone else’s problem. The aggregators, MFAA etc… this part is all our doing, or lack of doing as it happens. If we are really professionals, if we are really wanting to reduce the delays our customers are experiencing. If we are really doing what our customers are asking them to do, and provide recommendations for them, we are obliged to support the non banks far more than we do currently. The amount of support we give them is pathetic. When you look at what they offer, and what they did to create this industry, its well past the time to step up. Take some responsibility for the industry which offers you a living. Drag yourself away from your comfort zone. If you don’t know what an application form for anything other than a rate saver, mav or premier advantage deal looks like, suck it up and try something a little exotic. You might like it. You’re brokers after all. If you cant support products that are cheaper than a major bank, with 2 day turn around times,no fees,and all the bells and whistles, how can you then complain about the banks screwing you? More to the point, how can you take yourselves seriously as brokers and feel you are doing the best for your customers? Its a bit rich, really. Mark is spot on- take a good long look at whether you try very hard to spread your business around. If you haven’t taken the time or made the effort to learn about what else is around, or to attend any of the second tier/non bank training sessions, that’s your fault not the aggregators. Fix it. Call your BDM at Challenger, firstmac, resimac, homeloans ltd etc etc.

supporter June 18, 2009

LIGHTBULB. . . .Thank god your around. . . .At last some who has been able to share the love. . . THe Non bank guys are where its at. . .suffice to say they have money to lend out the door they are able to turn it around in shorter time frames than you can get with the BANKS. .

Your right lightbulb. . . all you need to be doing is making the call to find the point of difference and let them do the rest. . .

Just as you are an ex banker who got sick of working for a major bank, you find yourself becoming a broker that originates major bank products. The non bank guys come from the banks and know the crap that goes on in there and are keen as mustard to give you a great exerience that puts the banks to shame. . .

I know, i know, your worried about the GE and Macquarie experience happening again . . It woudlnet happen now, . . AOFM is a good measurign stick for you to identify who you should be engaging with. With Government money you could not be too concerned about any operation risk issues for them exiting the market and leaving your client/ portfolio to suffer.

Have a go you MUGS, i have and it has been positive in service, $$ and most of all my customers have reccomended me because of it. . .

Long live major banks. . . First folio is the first place to start!! (Sorry for the plug)

Louis June 19, 2009

Re Light Bulb Moment:

What you’ve said is almost 100% correct.

Cannex and Infochoice are inedependent.However, I wouldn’t say they don’t care who is or or that they analyse without bias. Cannex and Infochoice only publish details of those lenders who pay them a substantial membership fee….and it’s not cheap. There are many mortgage managers out there that don’t show up on the charts and provide an excellent service, products and rates. I have been involved in this and the fees are quite substantial for little return. Nevertheless, using Cannex and Infochoice can still give you an idea on what’s happening out there.

Thank you for your comments anyway.Much appreciated.

Chris June 21, 2009

Aggregators will continue to be torn between protecting their lender agreements and fighting for their brokers. It’s a difficult position given the current lender service levels.

Shaun June 24, 2009

Responding to Louis comments: it is completely free for institutions to list their products on InfoChoice.com.au. The only condition is that the information is accurate. It is the responsibility of the insitutions to provide their product data.

Savvy Investor June 25, 2009

Hi Shaun,

You should check the accuracy requirement as I use it sometimes as a first cut ‘product search’ - only to see time and time again that the information is completely wrong when you hit the product PDF stage.

For example : most of them do not put loan cap limits into their products even though they clearly can not fund loans over $2.5 Million when you check the product specs, or advertise “Low Doc” but then demand almost the same amount of information/docs as a full doc would anyway! - Just a waste of time. You need to employ at least one broker to keep them honest and to check their input against their actual product specs. You would only have to check whenever they added a change or a new product so should not be a full time job. You can assume the rate would be correctly reported.

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