GE Money in limbo as CBA cherry-picks Wizard loans, drops rate

Commonwealth Bank of Australia (CBA) says it will acquire a $2.25 billion portion of Wizard Home Loans’ portfolio from GE Money.

CBA would also pass on a 100 basis point cut to interest rates to those Wizard home loans to be included in the new CBA-funded portfolio, the bank said in a statement on Tuesday.

CBA said the 16,000 Wizard customers affected by the acquisition would pay 5.84 per cent on their variable home mortgage rate from March 9.

However, GE Money spokesman Tristan Everett said customers were already paying 6.26 per cent and the standard variable rate for a Wizard home loan should drop to 5.26 per cent.

Australia’s largest home lender shunned the remaining $9.25 billion Wizard portfolio that includes around 60,000 accounts comprising low-documentation loans and mortgages with high loan to valuation ratios (LVRs) and currently has a default rate of around three per cent.

This default rate is about 2.5 times higher than the default rate on the loan book of the average bank.

GE Money’s Wizard Home Loans subsidiary was sold to John Symond’s Aussie Home Loans and CBA - a 33 per cent shareholder in Aussie - on Christmas Eve.

The sale followed seven months of talks with a number of parties and will be completed on February 27, with Aussie taking the GE Money-owned Wizard brand and franchise network for an undisclosed amount.

CBA retail product chief Michael Cant said the bank reviewed the Wizard loan book in detail after striking an acquisition deal with GE and Aussie on December 24 but decided against buying another $1.75 billion initially canvassed with GE Money.

“We weren’t seeing dramatic signs of credit problems in the portfolio but at the same time we applied a very strict criteria before we accepted it,” Mr Cant told AAP.

CBA has excluded low-documentation loans and fixed rate loans, and taken loans with LVRs of less than 90 per cent, have no past arrears, and that are 100 per cent mortgage insured, he said.

CBA sweetened the deal for Wizard borrowers being transferred to Aussie by passing on the Reserve Bank of Australia’s (RBA) one percentage point interest rate cut.

GE is hoping CBA may pick up more loans from the Wizard portfolio as the local subsidiary of General Electric moves to exit the mortgage market.

“We’re hoping that the DAF (deferred administration fee) waiver window that we’ve introduced on March 1 will go some way to allowing people to make that choice,” Mr Everett said.

“But they (CBA) said up to $4 billion at the start, so there may be ongoing discussions after that.

“The door is open.”

Under the deal with CBA and Aussie, GE Money last week said it would waive the deferred administration fee - the exit fee - for 12 months for those home loan borrowers wishing to refinance their home loans though Aussie.

The fee waiver came as GE said high wholesale funding costs in the US prevented it from passing on the RBA’s recent cuts.

Resi Mortgage Corporation’s head of consumer advocacy Lisa Montgomery says she is encouraging Wizard borrowers to look at other options.

“There should be a choice based on all aspects of the loans, not just interest rates,” she said.

She said the average standard variable rate for the big four banks is 5.82 per cent.

AAP

372 Comments

Louis February 25, 2009

This purchase together with clients that are now able to refinance without the DAF will create major problems with the balance of the portfolio. GE Money will end up with a very highly geared book and high risk Lo Docs. This will no doubt mean the remaining book will have a low rating and a lesser chance of seeing rate cuts.

Luke February 25, 2009

I am with Wizard, if I choose to go to another lender, and my loan is more than 80% of the value of my property, do I have to pay LMI with the other lender?

adam February 25, 2009

Bit rich for Tristan Everett to be crtiticising other intitutions rate cut policies!!!!!

Louis February 25, 2009

Luke, you will need to pay LMI premium again as LMI is not transferable. If your loan is less than 12 months old, you may be entitled to part refund. You will need to check with Wizard.

Paul February 25, 2009

Adam, I don’t think he’s criticising - it’s simple maths. I’m on 6.26 percent right now - and I’m being told that someone’s going to drop my rate by 1 percent.

Maybe the ‘meeja’ have reported this wrong in an effort to simplify it. Does anyone know if it’s 1 percent for all Wizard accounts - or just some of them?

Peter February 25, 2009

The CBA will no doubt cherry pick the best mortgages and leave ‘the less than choice’ mortgages to GE. The remaining ones have no chance of a rate cut and will instantly become sub prime or ‘toxic’. Responsible Brokers should bite the bullet, take advantage of the waived DEF window and move their clients. Do not risk that they will be one of the ‘chosen ones’ and end up under the CBA umbrella. Fear of being left behind would be an excellent reason to move your clients so if you have any relationship at all with them now is the time to ACT. Wizard guys should forget about feeling sorry for themselves and move these clients NOW and protect your book whether they stay with Aussie or not.

Ralph Bestic February 25, 2009

I have been a Wizard borrower for 6 years, never had any arrears, pay $1000 extra a month, am not a low doc borrower, have tens of thousands of unused redraw facilities and yet have not been ‘cherry picked’ by the CBA and have been told my 6.84% rate is not reducing….what is going on?

Ralph Bestic February 25, 2009

Forgot…..my property is valued at approx $570,000 and my remaining mortgage is just over $200,000….

MS February 25, 2009

Ralph, you are in an almost identical situation to us. We’re wondering who told you your rate is not reducing? Did you receive a letter? We have not heard anything and are wondering whether we should look elsewhere rather than wait to see if we’re ‘cherry-picked’ or not.

Peter February 25, 2009

Are there any brokers looking at the comments from Ralph and MS above.
They want help - NOW. I would suggest they would both be ‘cherry picked’ when CBA has finished picking over the deals but a really good broker should look after them NOW. I have never seen such a brilliant opportunity as offered by all this mess for GOOD brokers. Maybe the Wizard or Aussie brokers deserve what they get if they can’t take advantage of what is currently on offer. Turn the bad into good and there is a once in a lifetime opportunity to stick it to GE and (should I say it) do the right thing for the client. Stop worrying about the lender, or your francisor/aggregator, look after the client - that’s your job. If you do that well you always have a job/business no matter where you are.

Darren B February 26, 2009

Hi Peter and MS.
CBA are being very selective in the loan that they pick. If your loan is an uninsured loan, the bank have not selected you at this stage as part of their move to take over the loan portfolio. I would be suggesting that rather than waiting to see if you are picked up by the bank, that you consider your options. Consumer advocacy groups are recommending borrowers consider their options and don’t just accept what they are being told. Peter mentioned his loan was around $200K with a property value of $570K. He also noted that he was not a low doc customer. As such Peter, LMI will not apply to you moving forward assuming you make no dramatic changes to the debt level in an upwards direction. If either of you Peter or MS are wanting to have a chat and discuss your current circumstances along with the possibility of other lending options that may be available to you, please feel free to contact me. I am a Mortgage and Finance broker. my email address is info@alphalending.com.au

Ian Jervis - Paradime Home Finance - NSW February 26, 2009

I agree with Peter and Darren in that GE customers should be taking the initiative now that the early exit penalty is being waived and be seeking to get out of their current loan. There will undoubtedly be customers who get caught having to pay mortgage insurance again as their LVR is over 80% either from not having a deposit when they purchased their home or falling values have changed their LVR. Even if this is where customers think they currently sit, they should still be seeking out options and talking to a broker who may well be able to offer a solution they hadn’t thought of. My email address if you wish to look at you options is approved@paradime.net.au and I would welcome inquires from the Illawarra and NSW southern Highlands area’s

Darren B February 26, 2009

Ian you make a very valid point. I sincerely hope that GE customers take the opportunity to seek alternatives whilst they have the chance to do so given GE’s offer to waive the early exit costs.

Rod S February 26, 2009

Hi Ralph and MS,
In the spirit of competition I too would like to offer you our companies services. One of our loan planners is a previous Wizard Licencee. He resigned from Wizard over 18 months ago due to the way GE had already started to treat the clients he valued so much.
The benefit to you both would be that he would know exactly based on your loan type what penalties you would really be up for. We are finding that Wizard are currently telling everyone they have penalties regardless of what their contract actually says. This seems to be a very underhanded way to push people to Aussie.

What does this mean?
CBA gets to Cherry Pick the prime loans and now due to their part ownership of Aussie they also get paid for the clients that go elsewhere.

Call us on 1300 556 840 or go to http://www.tradiesfinance.com.au to check us out. We will definitely look after you.

NSR February 27, 2009

i am with GE and have fixed most of my loan at 7.99% for another 4 years. Break fee of about $35-40K. I have about $30k on variable interest rate.

It is my 2nd year into the home loan and so I dont think i can get it refinanced, because i would owe about $40k more than the value of the house :( anyone can think of a good way out?

MS February 27, 2009

Thank you to both Darren and Ian for your offer to contact regarding advice. We will probably end up doing that. Our mortgage IS insured, as we initially borrowed 90%. We are also outside the time period so the exit fees no longer apply anyhow. Our house is probably worth high 500s and we owe about half of that. Our dilemma is that we will be selling and relocating within the next 12-24 months so refinancing now will lock us into exit fees and other expenses twice (once now, once again when we move). It is possible (and would be ideal for us) that the CBA will pick loans like Peter’s and ours as a result of further negotiations. It is certainly a gamble, whether to wait or not.

Darren B February 27, 2009

MS - Thank you for your response. There are a few ways to look at this i would suggest. 1: There remains no certainty that CBA would pick up your loan, nor is their a guarantee that they wouldn’t. I think it may be fair to say no one really knows who CBA will end up taking over and who will just be left to their own devices. Although your loan may be been mortgage insured at the time the loan was taken out, assuming the figures you provide are correct, then a refinance should not see a repeat of the need for lenders mortgage insurance to be applied and therefore charged. Based on your current thought process, you indicate that you are hoping to relocate in the next 12 to 24 months. I hope that you are able to do so and your plans run on track. On the other side, it would be worth running a calculation based on the benefits you may or may not receive in the event of a refinance, compared to the rate you are paying today. Factoring in any possible entry or exit costs to the transaction and that will to a degree determine the benefits of staying where you are or moving. This will also assume that you stick to the plan of relocation in say 12 or 24 months time and none of your plans change. There are also many lenders who along with a good rate, have loan features which may be beneficial to you and worth considering, but also have no / or minimal exit costs. This may assist you. Remember however certain government registration fees will apply regardless. If for nothing else other than a good exercise, it may be worth looking at your options, having a comparison completed and see what your options may in fact be. Based on the facts, you will be better placed to make a well informed decision once all aspects have been considered as to what you want to and what you should do. Good luck with this and if i can be of assistance to you, please feel free to contact me. Thanks.

sandy February 27, 2009

I dont want to sound ignorant about all of this, but probably thats what i am, so here go’s my mortgage is obviously with wizard i fixed just over half of that and that finishes in jan 2010. the rest is variable. i believe i have not been cherry picked by cba probably cos of small arreers. i dont want to stay with GE and it is going to cost me 8.500 to get out. i dit not sign a contract with GE i signed with wizard are they not breaking a contract, is there anything at all that i can do. cant seem to get a hold of the guy at wizard we have been dealing with for years as he is in training all week. I hate GE and really want nothing to do with them

jono February 27, 2009

what a bloody mess

Darren B February 28, 2009

Sandy unfortunately any fixed rate loans, loans in arrears regardless of size are not being picked up by CBA at this stage and likely not be picked up at all. There are other lenders that may consider taking over your loan, however that would incur a refinance which would then see you pay the break costs. Wizard effectively were the mortgage mangers for GE which in a nut shell means that the contracts will remain in force. There is no break to the contract from their side. Please contact me if you would like to discuss this or any other option further. You can email my office and i will happily come back to you: info@alphalending.com.au

MK March 23, 2009

I know it has been said that LMI is not transferrable. I personally find that to be immoral and illegal in this situation. GE are forcing us to refinance. They should pay for all our costs in order to refinance. I have been with them for one year. Paid LMI for a loan of 30 years. I believe the LMI should automatically be transferred to my new lender. Once again it is a big company who really does not care about its customers, the little people once again trampled by the big businesses

KP March 24, 2009

I agree with MK. Im with Wizard and as I understand it, LMI exists to insure lenders against customers who dont pay or default on their home loan. I, along with many other Wizard customers haven’t breached any part of the loan agreement in this instance, so why should we pay another LMI? It is clear to me GE Money wants no part in managing Wizard customer home loans, so what beter way to do this than make rates look as unattractive as possible, hence pushing customers to refinance. To prompt the push even more they’ve negotiated with Aussie to slightly reduce the new LMI. I believe GE should be accountable for all costs to refinance.

MK March 24, 2009

I’m glad to hear some people are agreeing with me. I plan to ring Dispute Resolution at GE Money today and will then take the matter to the Banking Ombudsman if we can’t come to an agreement. Who knows, I’m not thrilled about doing this but maybe I’ll even go to Today Night or some other program. This situation is not fair and GE Money must be making so much money out of all of us.

MS March 24, 2009

Good on you MK. GE will be making 000s out of everyone, just on the higher interest rate alone. Like most of us Ive never done the ACA or T/T thing but if you’re up for it I’m sure you’ll have a lot of supporters to back you up. I’m also sure that everyone will like to know how you went with the Ombudsman

GM March 25, 2009

Like many of you, I am/was with Wizard and have made a heap of phone calls to various agencies about this situation. From what I understand, it’s actually illegal to provide somebody with a product or service and then ‘force’ them to use an agency of their choice in the provision of that service. (i.e. make it financially unattractive to use another agency). It’s called ‘third line forcing’ and is seriously frowned upon under competition law. One of the ways around the law is to apply to the ACCC to be exempt from the law - and guess what - that’s what GE (AMS) have done! Their argument is that being exempt from the law would encourage competition and be beneficial to the public! The ACCC are in the process of examining GE’s application to be exempt from the law, and are inviting interested parties to have their say by April 6th. I urge you all to research ‘third line forcing’ and get in touch with the ACCC. The more of us who complain, the more chance of getting it changed. Good Luck to all.

MK March 26, 2009

Thank you for that GM. Are you able to post the contact details for who we should call at the ACCC and perhaps even the names of who you have been talking to.

lindsay March 31, 2009

I took out a mortgage in good faith with wizard 13 months ago and paid $13,000 LMI I’ve been told by GE they won’t refund any mortgage insurance. I feel cheated and disgusted i have to pay another LMI to refinance with another lender. I have written to Today Tonight and will also be taking up with the ACCC as GM suggests.

AF April 2, 2009

I took out a 95% loan with Wizard less than 2 years ago. I went to see my former Wizard (now Aussie) branch about LMI if I move to Aussie, and he said I have to pay it again at a “discounted” rate. That is still $5500 that I don’t have, and even if I did, it would take over 2 years to recover that amount in a lower interest rate. I don’t blame him at all - he either had to move to Aussie or lose his business. I blame GE Money for the whole thing. They are a dirty money-grubbing company.

I have been sending email and making phone calls all over the place - GE, Aussie, CBA, Wayne Swan, my local member, the ACCC, the Financial Ombudsman. I have even sent a message to A Current Affair via their online form. I am prepared to make as much noise as possible because I WILL NOT lose equity in my house to a greedy big American company. I have also brought up the question of 3rd line forcing in all of my correspondence so I hope all involved are hit with massive fines.

I think we should all start a ball rolling and get as many affected people as possible involved. If we make enough noise it might make a difference

KP April 3, 2009

I agree AK. I urge you to submit a complaint with the ACCC. I’ve tried to post the general ACCC customer contact phone numbers and email addresses etc, but it seems this information is being blocked. If you contact the ACCC customer information number, they will direct you to a notification listing that has been setup specifically for feedcback relating to this case. You can submit by phone, email or in person by April 6, 2009. It falls under AMS Mortgage Service Pty Ltd. The more people who complain about this, the better chance of something being done about it.

KP April 3, 2009

I mean AF, :)

Darren B April 3, 2009

I am so disturbed by what has transpired with the GE Wizard Aussie deal and for the life of me, i cannot believe how ACCC has not acted harshly in this matter. You are dealing with a consumers largest purchase and debt here and as such this more than may things impacts on ones life considerably. The deal that was done by these companies is seen to me as a push of power and muscle. I represent a smaller mortgage broking firm and from our perspective we are not able to assist borrowers who have been hurt in this process because the restrictions imposed by the said lenders and the deal at hand would place borrowers in a worse position if they were not dealing with Aussie here. This is a joke. I say to all of you that have been effected, stand together and apply as much muscle and pressure on the relevant agencies to make them act. You may need to consider establishing a communication group and call on all people effected to lodge a formal complaint in writing to ACCC. I have been on to the ACCC website and when i search “Third line forcing” this is what their response is: Third Line Forcing is a specific form of exclusive dealing prohibited outright by the Trade Practices Act. It is not subject to the substantial lessening of competition test. It involves the supply of goods or services on condition that the purchaser buys goods or services from a particular third party, or a refusal to supply because the purchaser will not agree to that condition.

Kate April 5, 2009

Is anybody planning on some sort of communications group or similiar about this? If so I would be happy to lend my voice to this because I am so lost in it all and don’t know how to move forward! I’m going to be stung like others here and it just seems totally unfair, unethical, brutish and I’m disgusted. I refinanced with Wizard only 6 months ago and now I’m up for another dose of LMI and I just can’t afford it!! I’m thinking I’m going to have to sell and go back to renting. Wow - what a great move first home ownership turned out to be.

mitchel meehan April 7, 2009

Hi, i am writing this email regarding the cheek of GE money not passing down another rate reduction. They did not pass down the 1% in Feb and will not pass down todays .45%. Due to them no longer wanting to be in the mortgage market have sold most of there loans to Aussie. They have kept all the loans that still owe 95% and above. For us poor people like myself trying to survive on one income to support the family we would have to pay mortgage insurance again to refinance which will be 6000 bucks or so. They know they so can get away with ripping us off. I am sure i am not the first one to mention this.

lindsay April 10, 2009

I have recieved a letter in the mail from AMS stating that there is nothing in my mortgage contract that says i’m entitalled to a LMI refund if my loan is paid out within 24 months. Although it states in the genworth financial policy that i can get 20% of my LMI back in the second year of the loan. the next step i’ll be taking is to file a complaint to the banking ombudsman. is there anyone else on this forum in the same situation as we need to get a communications group going the more voices the better.

mitchel meehan April 10, 2009

I agree, we need to stick together and not let these idiots rule us like this……I have already emailed a current affair etc..

anna Kryj April 16, 2009

I am in the same situation like Mitchel Meehan. I am outrage and in limbo. Nobody cares and nobody gives a s….. about poor people. I dont have money to move to another lender so I am stuck with bloody GE. Whre we can get some help????

Peter April 16, 2009

All this talk of LMI, I was stupid enough to fix half my GE mortgage in Nov ‘07 and from then on rates fell so rapidly I did not have a chance to investigate my options. Before I knew it I was faced with a $10K break fee to exit the fixed mortgage. It’s now about $20K. I now have no option but to go the distance with this mob of pirates. Needless to say the interest rate on the variable side of the loan has not moved since November last year - and that was a delayed interest rate drop from months prior. How can the government allow these thieves to continue operating in Australia? GE Money have some obvious problems in their home country and elsewhere and they are blatently getting Australian mortgage holders to pay for that. I have written to several politicians (including Wayne Swan) and those that bothered to respond have washed their hands of the matter. If you think you will be safe enough sitting on your GE Mortgage until things improve think again. My feeling is the next ploy from these bandits will be to increase rates in a move designed to force you to re-finance.

MB April 23, 2009

Hi,

Im in the same boat as everyone above.
We bought our first home exactly one year ago, and chose Wizard for our mortgage. We have done everything right, all payments have been made on time. Our salaries are deposited directly into the mortgage account, and whatever we don’t spend stays there. We borrowed 100%LVR because we had no savings. It was our only option at the time, but because of the first home buyers grant, we figured out be could do it after saving like crazy for months to pay for fees & LMI.
Now we could lose our house, given no one will refinance on 100%LVR.
We’ve done nothing wrong. We would never have defaulted. My partner & I earn good money, and have never had any problems. We have perfect credit history. We would’ve continued paying our loan without incident for many years if this greedy company didn’t sell out their loyal customers.
What are we supposed to do now?
Is anyone doing something about this? Why haven’t the ACCC or Department of Fair Trading done something??

H Schryver April 23, 2009

GE Money decrease by 0.10% Variable loan effective 24th April 2009

AF April 23, 2009

Wow, 0.1%. That will get us a family day out once every few months. Where is our 1% from February? Oh, that’s right, in the pockets of the GE shareholders.

Dee April 23, 2009

I feel betrayed and am at wits end. I am single with two kids and have prided myself on having bought a house, always paid on time, and paid extra. I obviously wasn’t picked by CBA because I was on a partial fixed until April (as advised by my Wizard broker at the time). Is this discrimination? I am now paying 6.84 (woohoo, that comes down to 6.74, still the highest in the country) but cannot scrape the exit fees unless i do a drawdown. This will set me back years!

Is there someone who knows about this stuff who can offer a personal email so that we can give you our names and contacts because I want to be counted in if we can get the spotlight onto GE for what they have done to us.

I want GE to waive ALL costs for me to transfer my loan to a company of my choosing. The waiver currently is only for tranferring to Aussie and I don’t trust them either after buying the Wizard brand but not the customers so why would be want to then transfer to them!

Don April 23, 2009

I still don’t understand why many people chose GE money or Wizard at the beginning (i.e. through incompetent advice by dodgy broker … who yieled more commission than bank lenders).

Regarding the exit fee… just imagine that you have fixed Term Deposit at 8.5% last year and the banks decided to reduce it to 3% before the end of fixed term… Tell me what will happen? I am sure that it will be challeged to the supreme or probably international court.

Look at big pictures.. don’t just whinging

Darren B April 24, 2009

It appears that some borrowers are unaware of the fact that GE have provided a small window for clients to refinance their loans elsewhere to lenders of their choice and are waiving the deferred establishment fee. Time is running out within this window. THe key issues that remain though, are although GE may be waiving the exit fee for a short time, clients who may have borrowed, or are still sitting with a loan to value ratio of 95% or 100% will find it very difficult to refinance their loans. The other issue is that anyone who borrowers in excess of 80% of the value of their properties will be liable for Lenders Mortgage Insurance. I would suggest that each person effected by this, or concerned by this needs to have their individual circumstances assessed to see if there are alternative options. Our office would be happy to assist if and where possible. Please send us an email directly and we can make contact with you to discuss your personal positions. Please include a return telephone number as well. info@alphalending.com.au

mitchel meehan April 24, 2009

I am so mad with AMS…. I have a stay at home mum with a toddler and newborn to support on a one income wage…How the hell am i supposed to get 20k to put on my mortgage so i can swap lenders… what a mess. Wish i had never tried to be a first home buyer 2 years ago at the peak of the boom..I got nothing for my money and now have no money built up in the house due to the house prices and now stuck with these jokers for the next 35 years..

Ka Magloire April 27, 2009

I had a mortgage with AMP 4 years ago that I paid LMI as my girlfriend and I borrowed 95%. Unfortunately after 2 years we split and she didn’t want the house so I re-mortgaged with Wizard to pay her off - my second LMI in 2 years. I’ll be damned if I now cough up my 3rd LMI in 4 years because of this debacle. Like most here, I haven’t done much wrong and budget very well.

I fixed 50% of my loan for 2 years, (which concludes in mid May 2009), AMS have sent me a letter asking me to call them to discuss my options - Options? I’m not aware of any huge exits fees and appear to be in a better position than most but if I refinance I’ll be back to worse than square one, in my fifth year of buying a house. Surely GE can at least be fined - this has to be illegal.

Darren B April 27, 2009

Ka, it appears that you are in fact in a slightly better position than most, however there are a few points to consider here. Firstly, since re-mortgaging your home loan and fixing the rate some two year ago, you may very well have seen some capital growth (hopefully), which in the event that your loan to value ratio is 80% or below, LMI may not be applicable in your case. On the flip side of that, if lets assume your property has not increased in value enough to avoid LMI, then you need to way up the cost of paying LMI again and more favorable lending terms / rates etc vs the interest rate, fees and charges that will be imposed on you by your current lender.That may assist you overall in making your decision as to what would in fact be best for you. Good Luck

Ka Magloire April 29, 2009

Woops! Silly me, I suppose. Rang GE today after talking to my bank about refinancing and getting excited about putting an extra $400-450 back into my pocket each month. GE tell me that I’ll have to pay an exit fee of $350 (expires in may 2010) unless I go back to the Wizard shop that wrote my mortgage (soon to be Aussie), so off I went.

Soon to be Aussie blamed the greedy Americans, before telling me the exit fee was $1800 until May 2010. I complained about paying mortgage insurance and he said there were lenders who would chop 40% off the LMI. THEN he realised I was nearly 3 weeks in arrears and said no lender would touch me until I showed 6 months of perfect payments.

I’d got into strife when the interest rates went nuts and watched my $16,000 credit turn into a $4,000 deficit before getting my finances under control again. I slowed down paying off the arrears when GE got involved, so here’s the hard lesson - banks may muck around with us, but it’s tougher to muck around back AND mortgages aren’t toys.

I’m not feeling sorry for myself as my situation improved a while back and my life is more or less back in my own hands. But how on Earth are some people meant to get back on their feet when they can’t refinance due to previous arrears and GE is slugging them for 2% over the top? I don’t know what lender to eventually go with - non-bank lending sector really sucks now, while CBA and NAB are currently the spokesmen for why banks will have to raise rates regardless of what the RBA do. Will this ever get better?

Ka Magloire April 29, 2009

Darren forgot to thank you for your time.

My LVR last time around covered the 95% being lent to me. As you know in these times 90% loans are more common which makes the LVR a close call again.

I’ll leave it for a while I think. No one knows where the economy is going and I’m old enough to remember when 7% was heaven sent. I’ll just get rid of the arrears and put $250 a month back into my pocket before studying the situation closely over the next few months. For most of us our next move is going to be one of the most crucial calls we make in our lives for quite a while. Crazy times, eh?

Darren B April 29, 2009

Ka, thanks for the update on the situation. It appears that you are going about things the right way, clear your arrears, get back on track and then make the most suited decisions for your needs as and when the time is right. If at any stage in the future you require assistance, please feel free to contact me. I would be happy to provide any assistance i can at that stage. Good Luck with it all and remain diligent. Darren

JasonH April 30, 2009

Maybe we should be giving a bit of curry to the mortgage insurers also.

Shouldn’t they be able to simply transfer any existing LMI if a client takes out the same size mortgage with the same LVR as they had originally and if not they could simply pay the difference. Seeing as though near all lenders use the same Mortgage Insurers it would be a much simpler solution.

After all the client has already paid to have the loan insured by the original lender so they should not have to pay it again, especially if it is with the same insurer and the same LVR etc. They are as profit hungry as the banks.

mitchel meehan April 30, 2009

I agree, i have only just paid my mortgage insurance 2 years ago when i brought as a first home buyer. It would be crazy for me to have to pay this again IF i can get another 100% loan as i have not had any growth in my property.CHEERS G.E you Fu–ing c–ts with ya 0.1% drop…piss take. How come they have not been on the news yet? I have writen to all the media…GRRRRRRRRRR

SO MAD AT ALL THIS…..

AF May 3, 2009

Well, we’re all stuffed now. The ACCC have decided that the DAF waiver ONLY if we go to Aussie is legal. Aussie, GE and Genworth will all be rubbing their grubby hands together waiting for their cut of exit fees, establishment fees, and lenders mortgage insurance. I have done my sums and I will still be better off staying put with the rip-off merchants AMS / GE - for now. Who knows what they will do next.

Ka Magloire May 4, 2009

I read today that there are only really 2 LMI companies - PMI and…GE!

So not only are they ripping us off on our mortgages, they could already be our LMI insurer but clobber us for LMI again should we manage to refinance through Aussie, who no doubt will only use GE. Maybe that’s how the Aussie broker is able to offer a 40% discount!

Ka Magloire May 4, 2009

Maybe this guy has some answers. If I call him enough GE can redirect some of the money they’re stealing from me to change his number - I’ll start tomorrow!

*NB: Details removed by Editors.

mitchel meehan May 4, 2009

yes ill call him also…cheers.

LC Team May 4, 2009

Hi everyone,

Please note that due to privacy requirements, we have removed the phone contact details from the post above.

Regards,

Scott.

Ka Magloire May 4, 2009

That GE personal’s contact details don’t seem to be private - they are freely available here on the Net.

http://www.treasury.gov.au/documents/1399/PDF/GE_Money.pdf

Jaoz May 12, 2009

Hi all I am in the same situacion does any one know any authority or any one who can help Us here I dont undestand why I have to pay the highest interest rate in the market I did purchase my first home 4 years ago I still owe 290,000 the price of the property is 330,000 so I been told at aussie that all this paperwork+ LMI + Fees will cost me around 4,500 any one can suggest me another solution Thanks

mitchel meehan May 12, 2009

Yep take the managers at G.E and hold em hostage.

mitchel meehan May 20, 2009

Thinking about taking this through the courts. Am going to get some leagl advise.

Jaoz May 22, 2009

Just an Idea Why not have a meeting one weekend in any Club,RSL etc have a bit of discussion probably take LEGAL ACTION agains these people I think we will have a better chance of fighting as a group Who knows we might get a good deal or something the only thing I am sure I will go all the way to Fight these Bastards!!!!

mitchel meehan May 22, 2009

Yeh M8. i am with you, but dont we all live in different parts? I am, from Perth.

mitchel meehan May 22, 2009

Tried to refinance the other day to another bank but they want 90% of the mortgage and i have borrowed 100% 2 years ago….and owe 100% so they are not intersted.. SO AGAIN I AM STILL STCK WITH THIS FUCKING HEADACHE OF G.E…………Tell you what G.E you can have my house as the house price’s has gone down since i brought in Perth 2 years ago peak boom.

lindsay May 25, 2009

Better the devil you know than the devil you don’t. I’ve been trying to refinance through NAB/homeside, that was about 6 weeks ago and i’m still waiting for approval. Not to sure now whether i will transfer even if i get approval if this is an indication of their service standards.

Jade May 25, 2009

Lindsay - I hear you, my husband & I tried to refinance through Homeside and NAB about 6 weeks ago and NOTHING … I know they must be exteremly busy processing loans at the moment but not good enough at all. We too borrowed 100% two years ago and can now not reborrow at 90% as don’t have enough equity. Extremely upsetting when we have never missed a payment and been such good clients, I just wish someone could tell us how to get out of this situation … the big banks won’t help and I’m so concerned if interest rates go up we will have to sell the house. ARGGGG. Cannot believe interest rates are so low and we have no choice but to take GE’s crappy offer of a variable rate. Wheres the security in that? If I had a crystal ball and known this was all going to happen I would never have signed up with Wizard in the 1st place for 100%, we could have waited 2 years, saved more, grabbed an even better 1st home owners grant and now we’d be laughing … well, maybe not laughing, but I’d be getting some sleep. Thanks for nothing Wizard and GE - and top effort NAB on your very prompt service. Pathetic. Please let there be some light at the end of this very dark and shitty tunnel.

mitchel meehan May 25, 2009

The worst people affected here with out a doubt are those of us that have brought 2 years ago at the peak of the boom and who also brought in WA and borrowed 100%. Was the hardest to get into the market and you got fuck all for your money, we got a matchbox 2 bedroom for 350k and there is 4 of us now in our family… The worst thing is i have a stay at home mum, new born and 3 year old to juggle as well.

WHAT A FUCKING MESS…all i want to to do is pay a mortgage to a normal lender not these bastard G.E rip off merchants.

JACK May 27, 2009

We have refinanced our home loan through CBA the loan has been approved does anyone know if we will get discounted LMI and application fees? Or is this only if you get refinanced through Aussies own loan products?

ka magloire May 27, 2009

My guess is only if you go through Aussie. What worries me is Aussie told me that they could get up to 40% discount on LMI, but I reckon that’s because the LMI business goes to GE! If true…how the heck did the ACCC judge this all to be okay? Astounding!

AF May 28, 2009

Attention Lenders!

If there are any lenders out there who are in it for the long term, and not just looking for a quick buck, wouldn’t it make sense to make an offer to Wizard / GE customers to pay their DAF and LMI, or at least contribute towards it. There are many good customers who have been caught up in this.

I along with many others have a variable rate, have never missed a payment, have never fallen behind, and have had steady employment for many years. If a lender got 1000 Wizard / GE customers that is tens of millions of dollars in commission over the next 30 years. If you are a bank, it is probably hundreds of million in profit. If you keep your interest rates fair (unlike dirty, filthy GE Money) and have good customer service, customers will have no reason to leave.

Sure, it may cost you upfront, but in the long term you will make a fortune. We (customers) cannot afford to pay DAF and LMI again to change lender. If you help us you will benefit over the long term!

There. The challenge is out there. Any takers?

Louis May 28, 2009

Dear AF

If your suggestion was viable everyone would be in it.

As an example: Refinance a GE Money loan of $300,000 on interest only for 5 years @ 90% LVR with Westpac. Your Westpac rate will be say 5.11%. Your yearly interest savings will be about $6,000 or $30,000 over 5 years.

The GE Money exit fee will be approx $3,600 (say) and insurance $4,185. Total costs paid by the broker is $7,785 (as you suggested)

Westpac will pay the following commissions:

Upfront: $1,500
Trail commission over 5 years: $2,250
Total commission: $3,750
Less reimbursement to you: $7,785
Shortfall: $4,035

So in this example, no broker could afford it because on average, loans these days don’t last 5 years.

On the basis you will be saving $30,000, it would be best if you took out a personal loan for $7,785.

The best you can do is to get the broker to make a contribution but don’t expect too much, because whilst they want to look after the client, they also need to put food on their own table.

Start shopping. You never know!

AF May 28, 2009

Hi Louis,

Thanks. You have shown how stupid the ACCC are. In their ruling on the AMS application for exemption from third-line forcing rules, they said other mortgage providers still have the opportunity to compete for our mortgages. With negative margins how do they think that is going to work?

The only option left for any fair outcome is legal action against GE Money.

Jaoz May 29, 2009

Hi all I have been doing some research and looks like there nothing we can do!!!!!!! I have contact ACCC and they said that is not in their jurisdiction and a complain should be made at Australian Security & Invesment Comission (ASIC) Phone: 1300300630 http://www.asic.gov.au So if we can start sending lots & losts of complaints to this ASIC they might do something and we might get a fair result fingers cross!!! Good luck everyone.

mitchel meehan May 29, 2009

Will do, cheers Mitch.

mitchel meehan July 22, 2009

Can you believe that now you cant fix the rate from these rip off merchants….How the hell are they getting away with this…..Any one had any advancment in dealing with these idiots?

KP August 4, 2009

Maybe the only way for customers to achieve high exposure as to what’s really going on here is to protest outside the offices of Wizard/Aussie and call the tv crews!

mitchel meehan August 4, 2009

Have all ready emailed current affair and today tonight etc…will see what happens.
But yeah a protest sounds good.

Ka August 4, 2009

Current Affair and TT have already looked at this and buggered off. If you go to their websites and look up there GE input, (last time I looked) it just directs you to ACCC or some other similar agency.

No one cares about this issue. From the government down it’s been looked at and the decision made has been collusion. In the wider scheme of things it’s obviously been decided that the rest of us are acceptable collateral damage.

lindsay August 10, 2009

Has anybody out there had any luck in getting a refund from the LMI after refinancing within 1-2 years of taking out the wizard loan. I believe there should be a refund owing but AMS deny it. I’ve paid $13,000 in feb. 2008 with wizard and will now forking out another $7000 to refinance with Aussie. I wouldn’t mind getting something back.

Louis August 10, 2009

Lindsay

You will not be getting a refund from AMS because AMS and the LMI companies had a deal where you got a cheaper premium but not entitled to a refund.

Sorry.

Ka August 10, 2009

And who is the premium with?

Aussie told me about a 60% discount on LMI, (sounds like the same offer given to Lindsay), and I was told the LMI insurance would be with a GE company. More forced business, eh?

mitchel meehan August 10, 2009

Sounds like you work for AMS Louis?

Louis August 10, 2009

No I don’t work for them but unfortunately I was a mortgage manager with them and I know the policies. You could say well informed.

mitchel meehan August 10, 2009

All i want to do is be able to lock in my interest rate and i cant, so my contract has changed, surley thats not leagal?

Ka August 10, 2009

I haven’t asked AMS for a fixed rate when my fixed rate period stopped in May, but I did wonder if they were going to be offering one. I couldn’t see how they could if they are looking to get rid of all of us, because then there would be the break fee problem raising it’s head again.

Also, my current rate is 6.75%m so the fixed rate would more than likely have been around the 8.25%+ mark. My next mortgage has to avoid this type of thing happening again, but once we’re all with the big 4 banks I fear they’ll screw us too. The way I see it, if you need LMI you haven’t got a chance of staying ahead in the game. I’m being extremely careful about my next move.

lindsay August 11, 2009

Thanks for your input Louis, but i believe i did not get any discount on the LMI as it was $13,000 on a $500,000 so i paid the full premium. I also have a copy of Genworths Lmi policy which states a refund of about 20% in the second year. I resent having to pay out another $7000 but feel i have no choice, especially if interest rates start climbing again i’ll be paying 1% more if i stay with AMS. It’s criminal, it’s third line forcing for sure as the LMI insurer is with the same company as well, Genworth Financial a division of GE.

mitchel meehan August 11, 2009

It all very sad….i still cant believe we are all getting screwed so badly and its us poor ones who have tried to buy a house and still owe over 95% getting screwed over.. AMS are laughing at us for sure, greedy bastards.They have us where they want us, paying nearly over 1 % more than the other 4, unable to lock the loan in and do not neeed too be in competition…Cany wait for the next 30 years…

Louis August 11, 2009

Lindsay

You would need to call AMS or the person managing your loan to see if you are entitled to some refund. As previously advised I don’t believe you are due to the arrangement between AMS and Genworth. Genworth Financial is totally independant of GE. Many years back the insurer was called HLIC owned by the Australian Govt and set up to assist home buyers with a deposit of less than 20%. The company was later sold to GE and called themselves GEMICO. GE sold its interest and company became known as Genworth. Back to the premium. Genworth has different premiums depending on the lender. The premium can cover any shortfall in the event of foreclosure or if you miss a payment, called in the industry cash flow cover. AMS was not covered for cash flow cover, hence their premiums were lower and further received discounts ( so we were told)but the catch was there would be no refunds to clients. Hope this helps.

lindsay August 12, 2009

Thks Louis, you seem to know what you are talking about, but my loan was with Wizard, AMS are only the caretaker of the loan, iv’e spoken with AMS customer services and they said, as you have, that the premium was at a discount price but my wizard broker told me i did not get any discount on the premium. I paid this premium not them, i have not defaulted on my loan, infact with the interest rates coming down i have left the repayments at the top rate and have about $20,000 in credit after only 18 months. I have refinanced through nab/homside 1% lower to what i’m paying now. I resent having to pay out more LMI even if it is at a discount, but like most people who did not get taken on by CBA i’m forced to refinance with Aussie who were originally Wizard and pay out another LMI to the same company for the same loan. Just doesn’t seem right. As KA wrote in an earlier post we are just collateral damage.

Louis August 12, 2009

Linday

I don’t understand. Have you refinanced with Homeside or are you considering CBA? Unfortunately irrespective who the lender is, once you refinance above 80% a new LMI premium is payable. I agree this is a rort by the insurers and the government should investigate it. However, LMI could turn around and say that premiums are priced on the basis the loan doesn’t stay with the same lender for 30 years. Perhaps they work it out on 5 years. If they were going to transfer the premium to the new lender, you’d find the premiums would be much higher. The good thing is that you are $20k in advance. Time will repair the damage you’ve suffered if thats any consolation. Keep your chin up mate!

KP October 9, 2009

Hi All,

Just wondering if anyone has contacted or submitted a complaint to ASIC, and if so has there been a response as yet? I’ve submitted a complaint and waiting for feedback. Ive been advised that all complaints to ASIC are investigated individually. Unlike ACCC, ASIC dont collate group complaints and post them on a public register.

On a seperate note, I know there has been alot of information sharing about the LMI not being refundable or transferrable. Has anyone received this information in writing from Wizard (now Aussie)? All I can see in the Wizard loan contract is that the Lenders Mortgage Insurance (LMI) is a ‘once only premium’ that is paid upon settlement and will be processed if ‘you default’ on the mortgage. There seems to be no wording to indicate otherwise.

mitchel meehan October 9, 2009

Yes i tried with the ASIC and awaiting feed back also…. Any ideass if these scam artists are going to lift the recent rates increae passes on from the reserve bank, even though we are all ready paying nearly 1% more than the big 4 banks now any way… I am still so mad with AMS…They need to hold off putting up the next 2 rate increases to stay level with the other..WANKERS.

Ka October 9, 2009

Paying nearly 1%???
I’m paying 6.75% - that’s at least 1.5% over what’s out there.

mitchel meehan October 10, 2009

Is that 6.75% on variable? Last time i checked it was 6.2% for me,variable, must check again……..How mad do they make you feel.. want to take them to court for shit and stress they cause. You recon any of the M.D’s have mortgages with there company, i think NOT.

Jeanie October 13, 2009

This whole thing has been a nightmare. Even though were one of the cherry picked wizard borrowers that the CBA picked up we are still trying to sort out the mess. We have just been knocked back for refinancing/consolidation even though we are only asking 70% LVR, our income is more than sufficient to cover the increased repayments and we have a total of $20,000 credit card debt to consolidate.

I think our mistake was going though our former wizard office - now Aussie - who I think put on the loan application that we were Wizard/AMS customers - not CBA. From what I can tell some lenders aren’t keen to take on these customers. We’ve lost 6 weeks going through this process. The lender even set up an account for us (and deducted an account keeping fee!). However, yesterday we got a call from the broker saying we’d been knocked back - but that he’ll approach another lender - for a cost of close to $2000.

Does anyone know if we can ask the lender for written advice as to why our application was declined?

On top of that - it appears that the first mortgage payment that we made to the CBA account that we were told to use has gone missing.

I know we are not in as bad a position as some of you - as we do have a lower interest rate - but we still feel terribly locked in by a deal that was done that we were not a party to.

This whole thing has made me so angry and upset. I’m reluctant to deal with this or any other broker again.

Ka October 13, 2009

In your position that treatment is ridiculous and I’d say (from a layman’s perspective) that your broker has to be at fault. I’m in not a too bad position, but nowhere as good as yours and I’ve had better offers from the banks who’d throw a mortgage at me tomorrow. RAMS on the other hand don’t seem to be in a position to sort me out as easily as the big 4 are, so something is still up for brokers I think.

I’m biding my time having already been messed up on this occasion. I want the next mortgage to be a fair deal, and (so far) I don’t except that I should be forking out more LMI when I’ve done so twice in four years, and this last mess is no fault of my own. Additionally, I don’t trust that there isn’t a lender out there who isn’t happy to fleece trapped in customers again. They’re already raising rates no matter what the RBA does.

My view is that mortgages are long term deals, so short a term rip off you can eventually get of (current position) might be better than jumping out of the pan into the fire, like some may have done already. One guy I spoke to reckons that once the global financial crisis has settled down somewhat, the AMS/GE interest rate will be much closer or match that of the domestic market - it just a matter of how long and what amount of damage you can live through, but there’s a scenario were I would end up not switching.

Darren B October 13, 2009

Jeanie
I see no need or reason for you to have to pay any broker fees of $2000 unless this is a fee being imposed by a lender. Unfortunately your loan to value ratio of 70% and your income are only two parts of the credit puzzle and there may have been an alternative reason as to why the bank may have knocked back your consolidation application.

KP October 13, 2009

It will be very interesting to see how GE/AMS proceed after the Feb 2010 DAF (exit fee) cut-off. The reality is, GE Money exited the mortgage market and are wanting to get rid of all mortgage customers as quickly as possible.

If mortgage holders havent moved by Feb 2010, you can bet they wont be so vocal to advocate their absurd view that all customers have a ‘choice’ whether to stay or refinance. By Feb 2010 i believe there will be a more aggressive push by GE/AMS to make customers refinance. You’d think by then, someone would be imposing that all costs being forced by GE will need to be dropped/transferred/refunded. And this, along with their ‘unfair tactics’ of keeping interest rates 1% higher than anyone else, not allowing customers to fix loans and not disclosing all details about LMI requirments indicate to me a strong breach of misconduct in terms of Fair Trading. Time will tell..

KP October 13, 2009

The rip off merchants continue to make it worse! I’m sure many of you have received a letter from GE/AMS that the interest rate has increased .25% even though they are 1% higher than anyone other lender! It figures..they will keep doing whatever they can to push customers to refinance. I cant believe they continue to get away with it. I am prepared to keep fighting, but unfortunately it seems we are damned everyway we turn at present.

mitch October 13, 2009

I hate this s&$%….The f*#&$^@ can have my house if they want…I brought 3 years ago at the end of the boom and it hasnt gone up since. I would love to defualt, the worst hit here are 1 income families like us, that brought as a first home buyer 3 years ago and still owe over 90% and have no money for food not alone refinancing and paying yet another LMI plus 40K to get under the 80% bracket…

Jeanie October 13, 2009

Hey Mitch - we are starting to feel the same. Sell the fucking house and rent. I’ve never met a landlord that was as bad as the banks/quasi financial institutions.

I’m glad I found this forum - but I also find everyones stories distressing. Has anyone heard anything more about the proposed class action?

I have a background in dispute resolution - I never thought I’d be one of those “difficult” complainants - which is what we’re seen as.

If anyone wants to talk more kajk@iprimus.com.au

ka October 14, 2009

Absolutely no one gives a stuff and it’s been quite clear for the beginning that we are on our own. I’m surprised everyone keeps saying we’re paying 1% more as I could probably take that, but it’s just gone up to 6.99% and that’s closer to 2% isn’t it.

I haven’t met many people in trouble who weren’t put there by the financial advice of a professional (banks or otherwise) who have their own conflicting interest. I learnt the lesson from being shafted in the last boom built on the back of those at the bottom before being abandoned, and that’s the only reason why things aren’t so bad for me now. My view is you cannot sufficiently trust the sellers of anything financial - you have to get informed. This has been a whole new lesson for me!

mitch October 14, 2009

There must be thousands more people in the same boat as us. We need more of them on here to get the ball rolling so we can stop these cowboys.

Carmen October 14, 2009

THIS IS ALL NOT FAIR! WHY??????????????????????????????????????

KP October 14, 2009

I wonder if there is a way we could do something like consumers did with Cadbury? I believe they posted/created a petition at a site called http://www.thepetitionsite.com. From a quick look at the site it seems you can create a petition in all different areas such as ‘corporate accountablity’ amonst others. It allows you to create a page with the purpose etc and enables people to put in their complaints and responses like the forum. These can then be forwarded to companies in question etc…

Carmen October 14, 2009

Contact Fair Trading ASAP and lodge a general complaint. Have just been on the phone to them and was told if enough people do this they will have to listen.

KP October 14, 2009

I believe many people on the forum including myself, have forwarded letters of complaint to ASIC and waiting for a response. You are correct, ASIC advised the more people who submit complaints the better.

SMc October 14, 2009

Remember all this when you see Bouris on TV and Channel 9 telling you what a brilliant businessman he was. AMS funded Wizard, who sold out to GE, and Bouris not only collected handsomely, but remained on their payroll. They bought a dud (it made losses for many years until finally turning a modest profit) continued to run it that way, then had to recoup the millions they lost on it. Someone has sold you all out and is enjoying your cash. Shame.

Carmen October 14, 2009

He really shouln’t be allowed to be on TV at all as this big millionare who was SUCCESSFUL! BAHAAAAAA! He is the one laughing though to the bank why we all suffer. There HAS to be something we can do. What else can we or I do? Its such a helpless situation. What happened to a fair go??

mitch October 14, 2009

This shit is eating away at me, i got to much on my plate at the mo. And paying an extra 2% kills us…..Some one plzzz help…what can we do to these bastards.?

mitch October 14, 2009

Just submited another form to ACIC and now sending the same one to all the currents affair chanels and today tonight again…Come on People send some this today to back me up..

L3nder October 14, 2009

Anyone who is affected by GE Actions should write to the Dept Of Fair Trading. DO it both nationaly and at state level as I believe the state has juristiction for the consumer credit code but control is in the process of moving to federal gov.

The clause they are contravening is the following……
CONSUMER CREDIT CODE - SECT 72
72 Court may review unconscionable interest and other charges
(1) The Court may, if satisfied on the application of a debtor or guarantor that–

(a) a change in the annual percentage rate or rates under a credit contract to which section 59(1) or (4) applies; or
(b) an establishment fee or charge; or
(c) a fee or charge payable on early termination of a credit contract; or
(d) a fee or charge for a prepayment of an amount under a credit contract;
is unconscionable, annul or reduce the change or fee or charge and may make ancillary or consequential orders.

(2) For the purposes of this section, a change to the annual percentage rate or rates is unconscionable if and only if it appears to the Court that–

(a) it changes the annual percentage rate or rates in a manner that is unreasonable, having regard to any advertised rate or other representations made by the credit provider before or at the time the contract was entered into, the period of time since the contract was entered into and any other consideration the Court thinks relevant; or
(b) the change is a measure that discriminates unjustifiably against the debtor when the debtor is compared to other debtors of the credit provider under similar contracts.

Jeanie October 14, 2009

Agghhh - it’s gone from sub-prime to the ridiculous (sorry for that lame joke…)

As our loan was picked up by the CBA we decided to just approach them directly for a top up in order to consolidate and complete the purchase of a new car. They seemed to be fine on the phone on Monday, no worries etc.

We called our (soon to be ex) Aussie broker to tell him that this is what we decided to do. In hindsight this was probably be a bad idea….

This afternoon we get an email from him saying the CBA had asked him to contact us about our request! He said that ex-wizard customers were precluded from increasing their loan amounts for 6 months, that we would in fact have to re-finance at a cost of $1000 and that we would be better off going with the lender he had recommended. I’m not sure how our direct application to the CBA became an Aussie matter…

We were rather surprised by this as we phoned the CBA late this afternoon (prior to seeing the email) and they said that the application was currently being processed - they made no mention of having referred it to Aussie.

I smell something fishy! Even if what the broker is telling us is the truth - then even those of us picked up by the CBA are still being discriminated against for being ex Wizard/GE money.

We’re also really concerned that too many refinancing applications will have a detrimental effect on our credit file.

Mitch - we are fully intending to make a complaint to both Fair Trading and ASIC. I just feel like this nightmare is never going to end and I’m becoming quite bitter and twisted.

Carmen and SMc - I am going to have to stop watching the Apprentice. Every time I see him I want to throw something at the television - and until we get this mess sorted out we cant afford to buy a new one!!!

Mitch October 15, 2009

Yeah smugg Bouris from the Apprentice..I dont watch that shit cause of him…

Carmen October 15, 2009

Thanks L3ender. Thanks for the clause. I am submitting my application now. Come on everyone. If we all do its a stronger case.

Carmen October 15, 2009

If you are on facebook I have just started a page called ‘Wizard Home Loans is a scam- now AMS/GE money is a scam’
Please join this page and offer your details as many as possible. This may be a new way too of reaching as many people as we can. I have to do something. I can’t just sit here! Does anyone else have anyother suggestions because I’ll do it!

Concerned Broker October 15, 2009

Jeannie,I would report the behaviour of your aussie broker, either direct to Aussie’s call centre, or if this person operates from a franchise office, to the office’s principal.
It sound to me like he is trying to get you to write the business through him instead of going direct to CBA…. using scare tactics.
I am an aussie broker, and have not heard about those restrictions, and anyway, it has been more than 6 months since the Wizard/CBA takover.
Its unfortunate that you were dealing with someone of little or no integrity, I wish you well with your CBA application.

mitch October 15, 2009

Cool will do all the above mentioned

mitch October 15, 2009

Kool am now on the Face book site..come on People join …How else can we get more people?

JACK October 16, 2009

We got out of our wizard loan a while back, it was a bit lucky when the fixed term of our home loan ended. Got a pretty good loan from the cba now, still had to pay a couple of grand in fees lmi etc. It sucks to see the others on here who can’t get out of their loans it also sucks to see Mark Bouris on the apprentice as well as big noting himself in the paper saying the big banks need to be more transperant in their bussiness. Good luck to everyone with your complaints hope something gets done for you.

mitch October 17, 2009

Just got the dreaded letter from AMS saying they have put up the rate to 6.41%. Was hoping they would forget about myne. Fat chance, wankers.

lindsay October 17, 2009

I feel for you guys, i got out of a ams/wizard loan recently, cost me another $7000 LMI which i was annoyed in paying again after paying $13000 15 months prior. I’ve tried to get some refund back but AMS keep telling me that it was in the contract that there is no refund. Has anybody had any luck in getting a refund on LMI? i can’t see anything in the contract about.

mitch October 17, 2009

Hey Lindsay..plzzzz join the face book group…cheers Mitch.

Ka October 18, 2009

I posted this earlier, but it didn’t come up.

I’m paying 6.99%, so how is it that AMS/GE can charge us different multiple variable rates? They’ll be getting a call from me Monday.

mitch October 18, 2009

Pretty sure mine said 6.41, i chucked the letter away….will try and find.

KP October 18, 2009

Hi Lindsay,

I dont know which contract AMS is referring to, but as far as I can see there is no wording in my Wizard loan contract to indicate you wouldn’t be entitled to an LMI refund if the loan wasn’t defaulted. All it seems to note is that you are liable to pay the LMI if you default on the loan, which hasn’t occurred in this case.

If AMS/GE are talking about an agreement they made individually with the LMI insurers, then that’s important information that should have been explained/pointed out in our Wizard loan contract, otherwise, it could be seen as ‘misleading or deceptive conduct’ according to Fair Trading Act. I’m joining the facebook page..

Carmen October 18, 2009

Yep, ther is another facebook group to join as well as the other one! Some other AMS customers not happy not surprising. This one is called ‘Ge money you suck Give me my 1% rate cut”. JOIN!

AF October 19, 2009

The website http://www.creditcode.gov.au/display.asp?file=/content/code_principles.htm will explain more about the consumer credit code, and has contacts for each state. Below is the letter I am sending to the NSW Office of Fair Trading. I suggest everyone write to the relevant contact for your state with your own circumstances.

To whom it may concern,

Re: GE Money / AMS Violation of Consumer Credit Code

In May 2007 I took out a variable rate mortgage with Wizard Home Loans. The main reason I chose Wizard was because they had a lower interest rate than the banks. Furthermore, this had been the case since they commenced business in 1996, so I thought I was dealing with a reliable, reputable business.

I was happy with the service I was receiving from Wizard until the business was sold to Aussie on 27th February 2009. Since then, my mortgage has been managed by GE Money / AMS and service is now poor. I, along with thousands of other Australians have been adversely affected by the actions of GE Money.

GE Money failed to pass on any of the Reserve Bank’s 1% interest rate cut in February 2009, while the banks passed on the full 1% to customers. This has left former Wizard customers with a highly uncompetitive interest rate that is well above the interest rate charged by the banks. This has never occurred previously in Wizard’s 13 year history.

Section 72 of the Consumer Credit Code states the following:

72 Court may review unconscionable interest and other charges
(1) The Court may, if satisfied on the application of a debtor or guarantor that—
(a) a change in the annual percentage rate or rates under a credit contract to which section 59(1) or (4) applies; or
(b) an establishment fee or charge; or
(c) a fee or charge payable on early termination of a credit contract; or
(d) a fee or charge for a prepayment of an amount under a credit contract; is unconscionable, annul or reduce the change or fee or charge and may make ancillary or consequential orders.
(2) For the purposes of this section, a change to the annual percentage rate or rates is unconscionable if and only if it appears to the Court that—
(a) it changes the annual percentage rate or rates in a manner that is unreasonable, having regard to any advertised rate or other representations made by the credit provider before or at the time the contract was entered into, the period of time since the contract was entered into and any other consideration the Court thinks relevant;

Failure to pass on variable interest rate cuts is effectively changing the annual percentage rate under a credit contract, meeting the criteria for point 1a in section 72 of the Consumer Credit Code.

At the time I entered into a mortgage contract with Wizard Home Loans, their variable interest rate had always been lower than the banks. This was an 11 year precedent that Wizard had set at the time I entered into a mortgage contract. By not passing on the 1% RBA reduction, GE Money have breached point 2a of section 72 of the Consumer Credit Code as the interest rate change was unreasonable in comparison to historical rates.

It appears that GE Money’s actions are an attempt to force customers into refinancing with Aussie Home Loans. Further evidence of this is that the Deferred Administration Fee (DAF) will only be waived if customers refinance with Aussie.

GE Money has made it clear that they intend to exit the Australian mortgage market. They have no incentive to treat customers fairly as they do not wish to attract new mortgage customers.

I would like GE Money / AMS to be investigated in this matter.

Regards,

KP October 19, 2009

Well done AF. In addition to the above, it could also be argued that the forced payment of the DAF (exit fee) is unconsionable re: Section 72 (1c), as well as the force repayment of a second LMI because it was GE’s decision to exit the mortgage market. Furthermore, there is no wording in the Wizard Loan contract that specifies the loan holder WOULDNT BE entitled to a refund should they adhere to the contractual agreement and not default on the loan.

Mitch October 19, 2009

Thats brilliant AF…..well put, also that now we dont have the option but to be on variable rate and fixed is no longer an option so the contract has changed.

Jeanie October 19, 2009

Great letter AF!

We’ll also be mentioning that we signed up for a “smart loan” and our variable rate was slightly higher - but we had the all the frills - such as the ability to go interest only, repayment holidays and top ups etc. All of these features disappeared overnight without our loan reverting to the SVR. Massive change to the contract I’d say…

Ka October 19, 2009

All the above seems to apply to me. I’ll send in a letter tomorrow.

Ka Magloire October 21, 2009

Thanks guys for useful letter. I ended with;

‘I would like GE Money / AMS to be investigated in this matter and to be advised on how I may go about seeking compensation towards refinancing my mortgage with another lender’.

For NSW I emailed it to

Office of Fair Trading
PO Box 972
Parramatta NSW 2124
Email: Policy@oft.commerce.nsw.gov.au
Mark: “FAO Lucas Kolenberg”

(taken from the website)

I also asked him to let me know if a hard copy needs to be forwarded, but I may send it anyway.

mitch October 24, 2009

Just a quickie, any one know if or when these wankers are stopping DAF?

KP October 26, 2009

Hi Mitch,

GE Money/Wizard have proposed to waive the DAF (for those who refinance via Aussie) until Feb 2010. But who knows, GE Money might be forced to waive the DAF alogether for all Wizard customers depending on the outcome of complaints made to ASIC and Dept Fair Trading. Hope this helps.

Ka October 26, 2009

Has anyone ever heard back from ASIC and Dept Fair Trading? I would have expected at least an acknowledgement of the complaint arriving, otherwise what’s to stop them claiming that it was never received?

I don’t have a DAF but I refuse to pay a third LMI in 5 years, and I also want to know why I’m paying 6.99% when others on here say they are paying 6.49%.

mitch pissed off October 26, 2009

That may be due to when there was rate reductions they didnt lower yours so it meant you where just paying more but still really only at the same rate as every one else.

No i have not heard back from ASCI, i have kept all my emails sent in my drafts for proof.

PLZZZZZZZZZZZZ all people sign up for the face book site!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ka October 26, 2009

I was with Wizard and got the rate reductions. Surely, I should be amongst the lowest rates on GE’s books. I cannot believe these guys will not at some point be made to pay.

My friend in the UK reckons we could cripple them by all going 2 weeks into arrears on our mortgages. I might start a movement.

Mitch PISSED OFF October 27, 2009

Ha , thats what i am thinking also…..arrears is a good idea a long as we can get a few off us to do it..

Mitch PISSED OFF October 27, 2009

Imagine how quickly they would be on your back for that, different the other way round when you trying to chat to them..WANKERS.

KP October 27, 2009

I don’t know if ASIC are going to be of any help either. I submitted a complaint on Sept 2 2009 and have yet to receive an official acknowledgement of my complaint. I’ve just contacted ASIC who tell me they have recevied the complaint and are not sure why a letter of acknowledgement wasn’t sent to me. Long story short, they’ve received it but cannot provide me with any details about my compaint. They wont tell me if its being investigated and if it is, what is its progress or potential outcome. All they can tell me is that its been forwarded to another department but they will send me an acknowledgement letter this week. Ridiculous. Maybe those who have submitted to ASIC need to call them and specifically request an update to their complaint.

Has anyone else received feedback from Dept Fair Trading? Im not sure if this issue is ever going to be investigated and time seems to be running out.

Rod October 27, 2009

Hey guys,
The theory behind going into arrears is good, however, remember your aim is to be able to go elsewhere. While going into arrears will mean short term pain for GE it could mean long term pain for anyone who does it. Unfortunately if GE were to lodge defaults on your credit reports that would deter other lenders from wnting to take you on as clients.

It is more important to look at your real options and what you want to acheive going forward. Every day that the government departments procrastinate is costing everyone money.

We would be more than happy to offer anyone a no obligation review of their individual circumstances. If all you have done so far is talk to a banker or broker with years of bank experience you may not have had all your options explored. Sometimes people that have only worked in a bank see things in a very regimented way.

Please feel free to give our office a call on 1300 556 840 to see what real options you may have. If it turns out we cannot help right now we may be able at least to give you some direction of what you need to do to move forward.

Rod Stelling Tradies Finance.

Mitch October 28, 2009

I heard back from ASIC and they said they would not be taking up the matter…This is all shit, i am so pissed off, what next….

Ka Magloire October 28, 2009

Hi Rod!

Financially, I’m not bad off at the moment, but paying another LMI (3rd in 4 years) etc… would throw me deeper into short term pain, bring me back to square 1 (again) and leaves me having to weigh up short term rip off vs long term rip off, with no guarantee that the new lender won’t be doing something shifty later down the line.

They’re already raising rates without the RBA doing so and lord knows what they’ll have to do to claw back the billions in fees they’re giving up, not to mention the yet to be seen fallout from coping with the Global Financial Crisis.

Can’t trust any of them, and waiting seems the most prudent thing to do. Many GE clients have good conduct on their mortgages yet the CBA left us here with this rabble just because we borrowed 95%. Read above, someone on here is $20,000 ahead while others are being shafted on advice from brokers that aren’t GE connected.

It has to be tough for you guys as well, but the big boys and regulatory bodies in your profession are leaving us with no one to trust.

KP October 28, 2009

Hi Mitch,

Did ASIC say why they wouldnt be investigating the matter? I cant see how this is not a valid complaint…i wonder what response will be from Dept Fair trading.

Keith October 28, 2009

Hi Guys,

Just as a matter of interest, it is my understanding that to “intentionally” not meet your repayment/s is illegal. It is like writing a cheque with the intention of “stopping it”. You might like to check it out with a legal representative/solicitor before you try this strategy.

Also, as Rod mentioned, that strategy could backfire when you are looking to refinance to another lender. Most lenders require 6 months of “good conduct” on existing facilities before they will contemplate refinancing a home loan.

I would strongly encourage you to take as much formal action against your current provider as you can. When RAMS folded before Westpac bought them, they had promoted that they would always charge a lower interest rate than the major banks. However, in late ‘08 when interest rates dropped substantially, RAMS did not pass on all of the interest rate cuts which left their clients paying a substantially higher interest rate than main stream lenders. They were also charging the full early termination penalties as stated in their credit contracts. We managed to get these reduced by about a half. (At least it was something).

There have also been comments above about paying Lenders Mortgage Insurance a number of times. Once again, I would encourage you to take this up with “The Office of Fair Trading” and ASIC, as there have really only been 2 main companies providing LMI policies to Australian lenders (GEMICO & PMI). LMI is payable with each new loan, however, borrowers should get some form of benefit if the same insurer is insuring the same loan in the same name secured by the same property. The paying of the full rate of Mortgage Insurance each time you refinance is “unfair”. It is an area that should be investigated and pressure brought to bear to change this policy. Especially when you pay 000’s of dollars to the insurer each time you refinance. And don’t forget that the banks are paid commissions on every LMI premium paid. And each state government receives stamp duty on the full premium each time as well.

Keep up the good work Guys and Gals,

Keith

KP October 28, 2009

Unfortunately it seems the ‘formal action’ attempts are proving unsucessful. ACCC cant assist and one customer ‘Mitch’ has noted on this forum that ASIC advised they wouldnt be following up on the matter. I’ve submitted a complaint to ASIC and have been told they cannot tell me if the matter is/will be investigated so far. So it seems we are facing a wall each way we turn. Hopefully there’s some positive outcome from complaints to the Dept Fair Trading.

I am following this matter up with a leading radio station in Sydney who assists to expose matters impacting the community. Who knows it could be exposed on one of the talkback shows. Guess all we can do is to keep pushing the matter.

Louis October 28, 2009

Keith

You make very good valid points.

If I could just make some points myself.

I worked for RAMS when they used to provide a written guarantee that they would never charge monthly fees.This only applied for loans at that time. This was between 1996 and approx. 2000 when they introduced the Smartway product. The only fee those days was a flat exit fee of $500.They promoted that they were cheaper than the banks and were able to prove that over time, they actually were. It was their intention to stay lower than the majors. They never guaranteed this.

In respect to the LMI companies charging LMI premiums over and over again when you refinance, yes I agree this seems unfair. However, their argument will be that they price premiums based on the life of the loan with that lender being say 7 years. If they were to consider giving discounts on refinancing, you will find they will reprice the premiums at a higher rate to offset any future discounts.

I personally favour the LMI concept because it allows a purchaser to buy at today’s prices. In the old days, clients had to save 20%. Can you imagine a client having to save $120,000 for a deposit for a medium priced house today plus all the costs. Therefore paying a say $10,000 premium on a 5% deposit to buy the house today is to me a viable proposition. The problem is and will always be when clients refinance before the LVR falls below 80%.

And finally, the whole problem rests with GE Money - they let Australians down by not passing the interest rate reductions. Its now up to the Australian public not to do business with them so they can pack their bags and never come back.

Ka October 28, 2009

I feel more let down by the regulatory bodies than GE.

GE’s interest have been put before the consumers here, starting with the ACCC laughably allowing the illegal 3rd party forcing deal with Aussie as a legitimate “choice”.

Establishing 6 months of good payments is the easy bit of this whole mess, and I still think we need to find a way of getting the remaining mortgage holders to go 2+ weeks into arrears. It’s the only thing companies like GE will pay attention to and I’d like to see them spend money (from that position) trying to prove it’s ‘meal ticket’ customers are not paying on purpose. Besides, they’ve broken laws and treated us with contempt, so surely all is fair in love and war!

PS - Before Wizard disappeared, Talkback radio had several people ring complaining about GE leaving rates as high as 9%. Just like TV programs such as ‘A Current Affair’, they’ve all gone quiet and do not care one jot about this issue. We are well and truly on our own and that includes government and the dept. of fair trading.

If you’re in no position to re-finance, it’s radical behaviour as a group or wait for nothing, because help is not coming ever!

mitch October 28, 2009

Ha thats true, you only need 6 months of good history for refinance…so going in arrears for a month if we all do would be a good way of protesting these wankers.

Louis October 29, 2009

Mitch

Not advisable going into arrears. You will be charged additional fees for doing so. This type of retaliation will not help anyone. Maintain your obligations and hold your head high.

Mitch October 29, 2009

Seems to be the only way we can make a stand…no one else cares..If we get enough of us it would work.

Ka October 29, 2009

Additional fees are $50 a month. Credit rating can be repaired in 6 months. How is this situation worse than what they are doing to me already?

My interest rate is about to hit 7.24% minimum and they won’t talk to me. At least they get on the phone when you underpay.

Louis October 29, 2009

Ka

If everyone does the same,their arrears will skyrocket and will affect the price of raising funds which in turn will be passed on to the clients. Whatever damage you intend, remember at the end of the day you will end up paying. I’m not justifying what GE has done and have no sympathy for them. They are not breaking any rules. They are just ripping you off within the boundaries of the loan agreement. Voice your concerns with the media along with everyone else and shame GE. This is the only way you will get somewhere.

Ka October 29, 2009

The public shaming efforts aren’t even getting a hearing now, and when they did no one cared - the issue is gone for everyone except those with GE mortgages. There’s a cost, but we’d be deciding to pay it and be able to determine if it’s value for money later down the line. My extra 2% ($400 a month) is only value for money for GE.

“…will affect the price of raising funds”

Surely this is true for GE only not the whole industry, so why should I care? But if incorrect, then wouldn’t such an action cause the rest of the industry to do something about GE?

Some of my fellow GE mortgage holders are going under, and I haven’t heard any mainstream advice that benefits them more than it does GE. If we keep paying like good boys and girls, they’ll just keep ignoring us and fix their company off of our backs. Harvey Norman interest free purchases are going well through GE financing - they should all go into arrears too.

Keith October 29, 2009

Hi Guys,

Once again I encourage you to “play by the rules” as per your loan contract. If you don’t, GE will have more ammo to use against you. If this situation ever got to court, the judge will find in GE’s favor as you have “defaulted”.

Your best approach would be to get as many GE clients who are in the same position as you, and start a class action against them. You will get strength and leverage with numbers. If you can get 100 or 1000 GE clients and you all write letters to Fair Trading, ASIC and your local member of parliament (both houses) and also take your grievance to the media, you may have a chance. Strength is in numbers.

The governing bodies won’t take any notice of 1 or 2 letters, but they will take notice of 100.

But remember, it also doesn’t matter how strong your case is, under Australian law, you must pay first and then try to get restitution.

It will not be an easy process, but I believe that if you can collectively bring a lot of pressure on the governing bodies you will get action. This is the same stuff as Erin Brokavich (if that is how you spell it). Get as many disgruntled GE clients as you can and make as much noise as you can.

Good luck, if you do it the right way you will have success.

Keith

AF October 29, 2009

Falling into arrears will only hurt yourself in fees and additional interest. I suggest everyone send a letter / email to GE Money, Aussie, ASIC, ACCC, Department of Fair Trading, Federal Treasury, talkback radio, A Current Affair, and any other relevant people. We need a lot of people to make noise at the same time for them to listen.

In it you should include ALL of the facts that are relevant to you, such as higher interest rates when they had always been lower than the banks, third line forcing with the DAF waiver if we go to Aussie, having to pay LMI again, removal of the option to fix interest rates, and breach of section 72 of the consumer credit code, and the fact that WE have been left in a much worse financial position due to the actions of GE Money. If you can think of anything else post it here.

If we all send letters within the next week they may take notice of a flood of them, instead of just ignoring the one or 2 they normally receive.

GE Money decided to exit the mortgage game in Australia. I was happy with my mortgage until they sold Wizard and kept the customers. Now we have possibly the worst mortgage in Australia. We need to make someone take notice.

Ka October 29, 2009

I understand what’s being said here, and appreciate the efforts of those giving us something to think about.

It should also be considered that a lot of GE customers have been backed into a corner through no fault of their own and many have little to lose. I was in arrears and had to correct my situation slower because GE are stealing $400 a month from me. There are downsides, but you’re not going to lose your house for 2-4 weeks arrears - especially when you can just get out of arrears at a moments notice. Now my mortgage is thousands in advance, my situation doesn’t look any better - GE are raising rates and won’t talk to me. I’m not paying another LMI (would be 3 in 4 years) and now I’m thinking why should help them out by paying in advance rather than in arrears?

Talkback, Current Affair, Fair Trading etc… don’t care, and the ACCC sanctioned third line forcing as okay. If they’re breaking the law (breach of section 72 of the consumer credit code) then 1 complaint should be enough. We shouldn’t have to go on a crusade to get regulatory bodies to do their jobs. They’ve voted with their silence to say that GE is far more important than it’s customers - too big to be allowed to fail probably. Money is the only language that counts here. We’ve got lives to get on with and despite the pitfalls I don’t see the situation getting any worse than it is already no matter what I do.

Ka October 29, 2009

Also, the clearest illustration that it does not matter how well you run your account is the CBA leaving good mortgage payers with GE just because we borrowed over 90%.

Why are we scum just because we’ve borrowed 95%?

KP October 29, 2009

Is there any way one letter could be put together identifying the main points relevant to all of us (i.e something like Ka put together)and then accompany it with signatures to form a petition? That way a united document could be presented to Dept Fair Trading and other departments? Would this be a plausible way to proceed?

Keith October 29, 2009

Hey Guys,

Please don’t take this situation as a personal slight against you. You might well have a legitemate grievance and feel unfairly treated. But it is not taken against you personally. It is purely a business decision taken by GE.

Over the past 12 months, lending policy in Australia has changed. All lenders have “tightened” their lending criteria. And lenders in Australia now only lend up to 90% of the security value or purchase price whichever is the lower. Some lenders, will lend up to 95% to customers who have current lending already with them. If you have a home loan, investment property loan, credit card or personal loan already with them, AND IT IS IN ORDER, they will lend up to 95%. Otherwise 90% max.

And this is where you need to investigate if you have a legitimate case to take action against GE. If you have entered into a loan contract and now, due to a change in circumstances, the lender is changing the way that they are administering your loan account and it is contradictory to your original loan contract, then you may well have grounds for appeal. And, please do not go off on the “emotional” path as it is very unproductive.

BUT, you must very careful that you cross every T and dot every I in your submission to the courts. Otherwise you won’t have a leg to stand on. I can assure you that GE will be doing everything “by the book” at present in order to get through this with as little publicity as possible. They still have other interests in Australia.

However, it is situations like this that when handled well, can achieve changes to the law for the better protection and treatment of clients/borrowers. Take your case to your local member and DEMAND some action.

Go hard, but do it right.

Keith

Mitch MAD October 30, 2009

So are we all clear that its leagal for them to change the contract. When we signed up we could fix rates and now we cant?

Keith October 30, 2009

Have a look at your loan contract provided by your lender. It will clearly state in that document what they can change. That contract is your lifeline. Your lender is also bound by that loan contract.

Firstly, if you can prove that your lender is not abiding by the terms of the contract, you will have a case against them.

Secondly, if you can prove that their actions are “unfair”, you may also have a case against them.

However, you will need enough disgruntled customers to make enough noise to get any action.

The lenders first strategy will be to “ignore the objections”.

And remember, BE SMART.

Keith

BJ October 31, 2009

We borrowed 100% 2 years ago
We have exhausted all our options trying to refinance but don’t have enough equity to do a new loan at 95% and even if we did we need about $6k in fee’s, have lost too much sleep over this and too many tears
Time for us to just accept the rate rises and that the lovely people over at AMS really couldn’t give a shit - not sure what pisses me off more
The fact that we can’t lock in the rate or that we have to pay large amounts of cash to get away from these donkey’s
NEVER EVER EVER EVER would have dealt with Wizard had we had any idea this would happen - should have gone with a big bank and saved for a bigger deposit and done a 95% loan elsewhere
Nice to read alot of your comments and know we are not alone through all this
Up your bum GE - really, stick it where the sun don’t shine

mitch October 31, 2009

Hey BJ, you have put it exactly right, i am in the same boat as you and brought 2.5 years ago paying at the top of the boom and have no equity, plus 1 income and 2 kids….Its so fucked up…..I am so angry with these fuckers. Fuck all we can do with no numbers, really need to get hold of details of all customers for some clout.

P.S have you signed up on the face book page?

mitch October 31, 2009

Any one know the name of the head director of AMS, time to track him down personally me thinks.

Mitch Mad November 1, 2009

Have just asked for some help from the face book site ‘Wizard that Was’ they have 75 members, may also be woth a quick message for you guys. May be they know some more customer?

BJ November 2, 2009

thanks for that latest interest rate rise last week in the mail AMS
much appreciated
Xmas has come early

tirds

BJ November 2, 2009

Hey Mitch Mad (good name by the way)

I googled Australian Mortgage Securites and added things like Directors / CEO into my search and found a few PDF files with numerous board members names so have a crack at that but I highly doubt they’ll get your personal mail

They’d be able to afford their own special envelope opening lady at the rate they are ripping us off

Can you imagine how big their Xmas turkeys will be on December 25th, I may just have to mung on a cold cheeseburger - good work boys, job well done …

mitch **** mad November 2, 2009

** Comment moderated by Editors **

Carmen November 3, 2009

I am so stressed, worried and scared! Cant refinance. How can they honestly do this to us and get away with it. I honestly thought we would be protected. I haven’t heard from Fair Trading. Arghhhhhh!

BJ November 3, 2009

Thrilling to see another interest rate rise this arvo

How’s things down at the AMS office boys? Getting those envelopes ready to pump out at the speed of sound, I bet

I can hardly wait

Hang in there Carmen

My thoughts go out to you and all the other unfortunate people who made the terrible mistake of shopping at Wizard

Carmen November 3, 2009

Thanks BJ! I need it now cause this is absolutey terrible. The link thanks to Mitch is http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=47259197093
Please join.

mitch November 3, 2009

** Comment moderated by editors **

mitch November 3, 2009

thanks..

Keith November 4, 2009

Hi Guys,

Mitch, Carmen, BJ, start stamping your feet. Demand some form of action from the regulators and your local members. And don’t take “no” for an answer.

It is unfair that you have been left in this position. You are entitled to some form objection to this treatment. DEMAND a hearing from ASIC & Fair Trading. And try to get the support of your local member of parliament.

Find out from the legal representatives who are handling the former clients of Storm Financial. They may at least be able to help you to “be heard”.

This sort of thing has been happening for TOOOO long in Australia.

Big corporations in Australia can afford the best legal minds to “word” their loan contracts in order to protect themselves. Because you sign these loan contracts because you “want the money”, it leaves you at their mercy. You signed the contract to “agree” to their terms & conditions. You are therefore legally bound by that contract.

It is now up to you to “challenge” the “validity” or “fairness” of those contracts.

I heard an advertisment on radio this morning about RAMS home loans, and once again they are promoting that their interest rates will always be lower than the big 4 banks.

History appears to be repeating itself.

Time to make a stand.

Regards

Keith

BJ November 4, 2009

who else copped a rate rise in the last few weeks and are waiting for the next one in the mail?

we’re getting into the high 6’s now and if that is not bad enough there will be more after Christmas …

KP November 6, 2009

Hi Everyone,

I have just received official notification from ASIC that they will not be further pursuing my complaint. In their words “ASIC is not satisfied that there has been a breach of any laws administered by ASIC in relation to your complaint..If you have concerns about your treatment by AMS, you may wish to raise this matters with the Credit Ombudsman..”. So it can now be confirmed that ACCC and ASIC believe that GE Money havent breached any Fair or Consumer Trading laws, even though the Fair Trading Law includes ‘unfair’ conduct.

BJ November 6, 2009

figured that would happen

All options exhausted

Time to strap in and increase the hours at work til we have enough equity to refinance

I’ll check this website again in 2015 and see how everyones going

thanks AMS - your deadset legends ..

Ka November 6, 2009

Surprisingly, I’ve just received a fairly lengthy reply from Department of Fair Trading after something like 2 weeks since my complaint went in.

There are about 2 pages of detailed reasons why finance companies can do what they do. It reads like a GE defence, but is probably more about explaining why the department won’t be pursuing the complaint. It ends by giving me pointers with how to proceed by submitting another complaint to another agency, and they’ve included a big (maybe 8 page) application form to fill in and forward on.

Bit vague at the moment because I only glanced over it on my way out the door. However, two things I remember are that (you’d be pleased to know) the law prevents companies raising rates higher than 48% max!!!!! And secondly, they seemed to have pointed me towards an agency who I can direct my query regarding GE compensation for the cost of re-financing.
(See post above between 14/10/09 - L3nder, 19/10/09 - AF, a couple of others ending with mine on 21/10/09). I borowed heavily from here with small adjustments for my particular situation.

I’ll copy anything prudent onto here once I’ve gone through it, but it seems to me that there is a body out there (NSW) to which we can state a claim of compensation, which for now must be worth doing even if they eventually turn around and do an ACCC on us.

KP November 8, 2009

The whole point these department bodies seem to be missing here is that GE Money have purposely implemented ‘unfair’ tactics to push customers to refinance as quickly as possible, whilst recovering as much money as they can in the process.

We know companies do and have encountered financial crisis, but it’s the way in which GE Money have gone about it which makes it ‘unfair’ and ‘unconsionable’ conduct. It’s not as if GE Money exited the mortgage market purely because of the financial crisis. GE Money could see the mortgage sector was no longer profitable, so made the decision to exit and pursue other ‘money making’ avenues within the GE business.

But instead of displaying appropriate business conduct to stick by their customers and do what they could to assist them transition to other lenders as smoothly as possible, they’ve taken the ruthless path to push the legal line as far as they can and use the customers as the catalyst to recover as much money as they can. i.e by imposing over the top interest rates and unfair conditions such as the DAF timeframe and additional application fees etc.

Generally, if a business decides to move in a certain direction or makes an error which ultimately impacts the customer by no fault of the customer, the appropriate practice would be to absorb the necessary costs take it as a loss and move forward. This clearly hasn’t occurred and they’ve done their ‘homework’ to find the legal ‘loopholes’ and get away with it. Ultimately its been the customer who has suffered.

What’s worse is that Wizard representatives are still pushing the view that that customers will be required to pay the DAF, application and all other fees and charges upon refinancing, because ‘you are making the choice to break your loan contract with Wizard’ as if it occurred under fair and equal conditions, completely independent of anything Wizard may or may not have done to initiate ‘your decision’. Absolutley pathetic!

Ka November 8, 2009

Okay. I still haven’t fully checked my mortgage contract or the CTTT application form Fair Trading have sent me, as I’m always busy either working or being a dad, but I’ve copied (below) the advice Fair Trading have given me at the bottom of their 2 page reply.

In my letter I mentioned, as someone on here had, that I’ve lost the ability to take payment holidays, fix rates etc… yet the additional .5% interest rate remains (this is the bit I’m assuming, as I haven’t fully check my contract, but I’m paying more than what people on here are quoting, and it sounds similar to what was posted earlier by someone). I also asked for advice on pursuing compensation for cost of refinancing. Anyway, the advice…

“…Accordingly, I must advise that we are not able to offer any further assistance to you on this particular occasion.

Nevertheless, as you are aware, section 72 of the Code provides that where a change to the annual percentage rate under a credit contract to which section 59(1) or (4) applies is unreasonable, it may be challenged through the Consumer Trader and Tenancy Tribunal (CTTT).

Therefore, should you wish to pursue the matter further, including any claim for compensation towards refinancing or for loss of benefits previously associated with your original contract, you may consider lodging an application for review of your situation with the CTTT.

The CTTT provides an informal, timely and inexpensive means of settling consumer disputes and has authority to issue legally binding orders against credit providers… further information can be accessed through http:www.cttt.nsw.gov.au

I intent to go ahead with a claim beginning by first writing to GE asking for the cost of refinancing (what I would asking the CTTT to grant me). For me, that’s only about $6000 if I really push it, but might be as low as $3500. I know there are people on here looking at substantial 5 figure sums, so it has be more worth it for those guys, and surely there’s an equivalent body in all States.

EVEN if they find against us, it’ll provide yet another dodgy explanation as to why the regulatory bodies as supporting GE’s actions - I bet some of them aren’t happy to do so. The response I’ve had from Fair Trading is surprisingly refreshing.

mitch November 9, 2009

This is all good work guys. Well put KP. Getting the DAF so we can go anywhere would be a great start. But yes i would need about 60k equity in my place as i brought 2.5 years ago and seen no equity buld up. Thats not AMS fault but what is there fault is what i am going through now. as i still owe 100% plus would need to pay that bloody LMI again…So all up really i would need 80K…..All i want to do i pay for a competetive mortgage, paying for than an extra $80.00 per week above the rest kills us.

mitch November 9, 2009

I am still emailing a current affair and today tonight most weeks, will start emailing every other day now as well.

KP November 9, 2009

Hi Ka,

I wonder if you’d also be able to claim compensation for the additional costs you’ve had to pay over and beyond what is considered a ‘reasonable’ annual percentage rate since Feb 2009? This is an avenue everyone could start looking at via CTTT. Thanks for the update.

BJ November 9, 2009

oh well would you look at that - just picked up the kids from daycare after a long day at the office and shock horror, another interest rate rise letter from the lovely folk down at AMS

It’s a balmy 35 degree’s here today - suddenly I’m not so sad if I the air conditioners down at the GE building shat themselves

Then you can start to feel some of the heat my bank account is

Thanks ever so much for another letter AMS - I really should send you some flowers

Ka November 9, 2009

KP: I intend to claim for everything I can think of including the $400 difference in mortgage payments per month I’ve had to make since GE sold Wizard. To be honest the way things have gone I don’t expect GE to lose because I think they’re getting more help from regulators than we are, but hopefully how far up the rort goes may become clearer and they might dig a deeper hole for themselves if anyone with clout chooses to come board for us.

Does anyone know AF? I basically copied his letter (above) and wrote to the same people, so it’d be interesting to see if he got a decent response. My email was clearly passed onto another worker promptly, who carefully put her response together before sending it out to me. I wonder if it just depends on whose desk your stuff falls on.

Submission to CTTT appears to only be $38. Cheap to get a decision from them and force GE to send a representative(s).

Ka November 10, 2009

Okay, just been onto GE to ask various questions such as why my interest rate is .5% higher than other GE customers. As someone said earlier, this conniving bunch will be very careful legally, so it’s important to find the gap they can’t cover. Picked up the flavour of how they go about covering their arses, even through talking to the poor sap on the phone who is reading from cue cards.

I try not to give the front man a hard time because they’re just trying to earn a crust, but he got my goat when he said ‘…”it’s your choice to stay with GE, you are free to go to the banks with their half per cent lower interest rate”. Had to reiterate several times that it was current GE customers (post Wizard) with the lower interest rates.

Anyway, he suggested that I email their management on services@ge.com to put forward complaints and discuss all aspects of my mortgage, including tribunal action I may be taking CTTT). He says this way the concern is “captured” and formally gone through with the customer, with a call back and follow up from team leaders and managers. He says it’s also the same contact for negotiating things like hardship payment holidays etc… (I think this is how they’ll say we haven’t lost the bells and whistles add on stuff in those mortgages that had them).

The guy got flustered around many of the question we ask here like why should I be out of pocket for LMI. Also seemed to take him way off script when I said GE customers where exchanging information across the country. He was surprisingly quick to hammer Wizard’s sale tactics in stating they will always be competitive with the banks - ‘…that wasn’t right. Wizard were selling GE products and were responsible for their own sales strategy’ etc…

So, I pointed out that GE should then be taking on those liabilities for false advertising/statements etc… which is when he shoved me the way of the email. He was going to put me through to a team leader explaining if my complaint couldn’t be resolved there it would continue to move up the line, but it seems to that the email passing all of the rhetoric I’d have to have lived through.

I’m getting the feeling that this should be thrashed out with GE first, because they’ll go to a tribunal if they know they are going to win, but I think will come to an agreement if they won’t win. Trouble is…is the situation winnable for us - they know all the same laws but better and have more time to make their arguments water tight. I’ll still give it a go though.

Broker in the 'burbs November 10, 2009

Ka (& other disgruntled borrowers),

I haven’t read every comment in this thread and this may have been suggested earlier, however have you thought about giving the story to some tabloid ‘current affairs’ programs.

Today Tonight or ACA would eat this up in a flash I would think. Particularly when Bouris could be hammered (if on a competing channel)leaving you hold the baby and GE Money for holding many clients out to dry. And the story connects with the tabloids favourite triple ‘F’ topics.

‘Fear, fat, finance’

Just a suggestion, I mean it couldn’t hurt!

AF November 10, 2009

I found another contact for people to go to with complaints - The Consumer Action Law Centre who are “a campaign-focused consumer advocacy, litigation and policy organisation”. Their website is http://www.consumeraction.org.au and ther email address is info@consumeraction.org.au

Ka, I have not heard anything back from the Department of Fair Trading. I sent my complaint by post, so I think I will follow up by email.

Ka November 10, 2009

Broker in the ‘burbs:

Some on here say they continue to pepper the ACA, TT and talkback stations but I remember people complaining to these 3 and more just before the election when rates had rapidly declined to 7%, but GE was leaving them at 9%.

All the media outlets went for it for awhile then it just disappeared, and that was before the Wizard sale. Last time I checked ACA and TT websites about GE, it just had a message directing you to contact someone like dept. of fair trading (as in, don’t complain to us anymore). No one in the media cares about this and hasn’t done so for about 2 years. It’s not in the financial section of papers, even in relation to CBA’s reported options. Like OneTel, Telstra shares, HRH etc… we’re on our own.

I also remember a group of lawyers talking to radio asking for 1000 mortgage holders not happy that banks do not pass on all of the RBA rate cuts, to contribute $100 each to take them to court on something that sounded a lot like the Sect 72 violations given to us on this board. Haven’t heard a dickie bird since and that was about 2 years ago. If they went ahead and didn’t succeed, then GE will have a precedent to call on if it’s tried again, and I bet they know what the outcome was.

Carmen November 10, 2009

I just received another infamous letter from you know who! Another interest rate rise on top of all of us paying higher anyway! This is making me SICKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK! Truly! If I have to sell I will have to take someone down with me and it aint gonna be pretty I can guarantee that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do they realise what they have done to honest mortgage payers! Its all about MONEY MONEY MONEY! If I am dianosed depressed and stressed cause of this shit I am going on a rampage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BJ November 10, 2009

I got the letter too Carmen - it’s awful I know

Please find some comfort knowing you are not alone although I know that isn’t much at this point in time

Would be nice to know if someone at AMS was reading any of these threads, is there anyway Lending Central can pass it on?

Ka November 10, 2009

I’ve felt like that on other matters before, and have seen it in many people.

When you feel under siege and the people responsible won’t let up and continue to keep piling in the kicks after they’ve dropped you down, then you end up getting into a war-type mentality because you’re cornered and no one is on your side.

I wonder if they’re with-holding information as well and just sticking to a script. I’ve recently met a woman who says her mortgage was half paid for, yet CBA still left her with GE.

KP November 10, 2009

Ka, it certainly appears that ex Wizard/GE representatives are being told to tell customers that ‘you are choosing to break your Wizard loan’ in order for them to make as money as they can before exiting the mortgage sector completely.

What Wizard/GE conveniently continue to ingore here is the fact that it is Wizard who ‘chose to break our Wizard loan contract’ by changing the ‘product & service promise’ sold to us when we originally signed the contract. As part of this change, they have added unreasonable terms to this service, leaving customers in position where they are unable to make a fair and informed choice on equal grounds. As a consequence, customers have been led to reject the changed product all of which was imposed on customers with no prior consultation or consent.

Wizard/GE changd the product and service promise we agreed to, hence they should be taking responsibility in providing a ‘refund’ or compensation for changing their product without consent/agreement. Deferring the DAF for 12 months if we go with Aussie should be a ‘given’ since we’d be technically staying with the same company. Instead they are making out they are doing us a ‘favour’ here. If they were decent they’d really be doing customers a favour by waiving the DAF regardless and all other costs since they have changed their producte and service we agreed to. Or, simply by giving customers a real ‘choice’ by offering them the position to refinance or stay with AMS at the same interest rates as the rest of the country!

mitch November 10, 2009

Just got the dreaded letter from AMS, was amazed that it wasnt posted registered post. People plzzz keep emailing today tonight and a currant affair with the story and this web page link, i am doing it every other day, cut and paist.

All the above sujjestion are getting confussing, out of the above who are the best ones to start writinf to? I have already tried ACCC.

BJ November 10, 2009

Just emailed today tonight Mitch

mitch November 10, 2009

Kool so have i and current affair……come on people, email every other day.

Jeanie November 11, 2009

Just catching up with all the posts here and I’ve had a couple of thoughts….

1. Those of you who have had unsatisfactory responses from the ACCC and ASIC might want to consider making a complaint with the Commonwealth Ombudsman regarding the way they have handled your concerns. From what I understand the same person looks after both ACCC and ASIC complaints and can look at them together to see if they have been handled appropriately.

2. I know that Fair Trading take a more personal approach to complaints than either the ACCC or ASIC and it looks like their advice to take the matter to the CTTT is good. I think someone suggested making a formal written complaint to GE first which is also a good idea. Make sure you list all of your concerns - your letter and GE’s response will form the agenda for any action taken in the Tribunal.

3. I would suggest that you focus your attentions on Today Tonight. Mark Bouris is fronting a channel 9 program at the moment, so they are unlikely to be interested. Maybe try and push that angle when you are emailing Today Tonight - something along the lines of - “He sells himself as a successful business man - but what about the people he sold out and are suffering as a result.”

We have finally secured a refinancing deal - although I’m not counting my chickens until settlement and we still don’t know when that is going to happen. It has taken sooooo bloody long to sort out and we are still suffering as a result of our association with Wizard/GE. Once we have got settlement and are finally free I will start making some noise too. I hope that doesn’t sound too selfish - I just don’t want to jeopardise our refinancing deal.

Even though we are one of the “lucky ones” I support you guys 100% and I’m continuing to look into what can be done to sort this mess out for everyone. I really feel for you all.

AF November 11, 2009

Another organisation to make a complaint to is the Financial Ombudsman Service at http://www.fos.org.au/

GE Money are a member of this organisation and are required to respond to any complaints as a condition of their membership.

Jeanie November 11, 2009

Remember this story?

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sunday-telegraph/wizard-first-to-cut-home-loan-interest-rate-ahead-of-rba/story-e6frewt0-1111117348056

I felt so cheated and angry when they stopped lowering rates after all the publicity they got for passing on the first rate cut before the RBA announced it.

Even though Bouris has nothing to do with GE Money anymore, it is worth remembering that he was still fronting them as late as August/September last year and trumpeting how good they were.

KP November 11, 2009

Hi Mitch,

ACCC and ASIC have already responded that they believe GE Money is innocent of any wrong doing. ACA and Today Tonight also seem to have ‘wiped their hands’ of any availability to help, so I dont know if its worth pursuing all the above any longer.

My guess with ACA/Today Tonight is that there is a ‘conflict of interest’ between GE Money and these stations/programs that we arent privy to. For example…..GE could be providing financial backing, advertising dollars etc etc to these networks, who knows. But the fact that ACA/Today Tonight are forwarding GE complaints to other departments like ACCC seems to indicate something like the above is the case.

The only possible avenue that hasn’t received a ‘rejection’ as yet is the Consumer Trader and Tenancy Tribunal (CTTT) via the Dept Fair Trading. Ka and AF have/are sending complaints now and have provided valuable information in the above postings. It seems this avenue could be a positive way to seek some kind of monetary compensation for refinancing our loans. Ka’s email explains alot of it around 8-10 Nov 09 postings. Maybe thats the way forward now. I’ve noticed on CTTT site that ‘group complaints’ can be arranged. I dont know if individual letters of complaint would be as successful as maybe trying to get a ‘group letter’ together, not sure.

Mitchel Mad November 12, 2009

Hey guys, thats sounds great, how about we do a group letter then post it to all of us and we shall all sign it with proof of identity?

Darren (Broker from Melb) November 12, 2009

Hi Guys. A group letter would seem to carry in most part more weight and as long as you are able to drum up enough support from all those that have been effected by what has transpired here, you stand the best chance of being heard. (Mitchel Mad) you have suggested posting a letter around for all to sign. I would suggest that would take too long, get lost in transit and may cause a far to complex process. Why not set up an email address via say yahoo or similar, prepare the letter, for all to see and agree to, and have each person send an email to the nominated address in support of the letter. You stand to gain the most amount of traction this way i would think. The key is however getting in the numbers. Having 5 or 10 people vs the hundred that have actually been effected, you would be noticed more in greater numbers. What has occurred here is beyond ridiculous and i sincerely hope that you all all able to come out of this on the other side. Don’t give up the fight and Good Luck.

KP November 12, 2009

Hi All,

As i mentioned on Oct 14, 09 posting there is a fantastic website called http://www.thepetitionsite.com which looks to be perfect to submit a group petiton letter along with our individual responses. I urge you to go to this site and click on one of the petition just to get an idea what its about. It could be categorised under ‘corporate accountability’ which exists on this site.

All it needs is someone to create a letter outlining the generic situation to CTTT in the ‘text template’ online. Here you add the title, general overview and paste the letter. Then those who wish to sign the group petition simply ’sign the petition’ by adding your details similar to what we did to register to the forum) along with a space for comments to note individual responses on how this situation has impacted your circumstances personally. It even provides you with an update figure of how many signatures/comments have bee received.

Once we feel we have enough signatures, it could be emailed/printed/sent to the CTTT to start with. What do you think? May i suggest you have a look at the above site because I think its just the tool we need to help our cause.

Carmen November 12, 2009

It looks fantastic! Does anyone know how to set it up???????????? I dont but I will sign it for sure.

KP November 12, 2009

I’ve had a browse on the site about how to create the petition and its pretty easy to get the information onto the template etc. We might need the help of some people on this forum possibly to put the body of the letter together? I’ve seen gome good sample letters on this forum so far. Maybe some of these guys or a volunteer might be okay to use this as the basis to put something together and then get some input from others if necessary.

BJ November 12, 2009

I’ll help anyway I can! Very keen to be a part of this

mitch mega mad November 12, 2009

Guys am off camping till monday, will join back in the fight then…have agood 1. Try to any way….. oh and AMS F.OFF.

KP November 13, 2009

I guess if we get this petition happening we need to be clear on the ‘direction’ or aim of this petition. Considering ACCC and ASIC have already deemed GE ‘innocent’ of any wrong doing, it seems our best bet now is to focus on achieving financial compensation due to :

(1) GE Money’s likeihood of breaching the CONSUMER CREDIT CODE - SECT 72. i.e their ‘unconsionble interest and charges’ associated with the orginal Wizard/GE contract. e.g not reducing interest rates since Feb 09.

(2) Costs towards refinancing. It can be argued compensation should be paid to customers towards refinancing, since GE’s ‘unconscionable’ conduct left customers in a vulnerable and disadvantaged position, making it impossible for them to make a fair rand reasonable decision whether to keep their loan with GE or go elsewhere. Hence, they’ve been left with no choice but to refinance with a lender who will be providing similar product/services as to the loan service originally agreed with Wizard.

AF, you posted a letter on Oct 19 outlining similar points to the above argument (that is if its the stance we’ll be taking). Would you be okay for the contents of your letter to be used for the petition? Naturally there would be some changes to reflect the general Wizard community, but its was a very clear and succint letter. The body of this letter could be prepared for the petition site. Beforehand, it could be posted on this forum so we can all view and make changes then submit when ready. What do you think?

Carmen November 13, 2009

Thank you for your work! Keep us posted!!!!!!!

AF November 13, 2009

KP, use anything that I have posted as you wish. I only hope that it can help to save us from this hopeless situation. I now wish that I had never bought a house, and the blame lies completely with GE Money

KP November 13, 2009

Ka, not sure if you’ve already structured some kind of complaint letter to CTTT as yet, but if you have anything you might be think could be added used as a ‘generic’ letter for the petition that would be great.

KP November 13, 2009

AF, did you end up receiving any response to your complaint?

Ka November 13, 2009

I nicked all my stuff from earlier post on here by L3nder and AF (copied) below.
All I added was the bit about seeking compensation for refinancing.

L3nder
Anyone who is affected by GE Actions should write to the Dept Of Fair Trading. DO it both nationally and at state level as I believe the state has jurisdiction for the consumer credit code but control is in the process of moving to federal gov.
The clause they are contravening is the following……
CONSUMER CREDIT CODE - SECT 72
72 Court may review unconscionable interest and other charges
(1) The Court may, if satisfied on the application of a debtor or guarantor that–
(a) a change in the annual percentage rate or rates under a credit contract to which section 59(1) or (4) applies; or
(b) an establishment fee or charge; or
(c) a fee or charge payable on early termination of a credit contract; or
(d) a fee or charge for a prepayment of an amount under a credit contract;
is unconscionable, annul or reduce the change or fee or charge and may make ancillary or consequential orders.
(2) For the purposes of this section, a change to the annual percentage rate or rates is unconscionable if and only if it appears to the Court that–
(a) it changes the annual percentage rate or rates in a manner that is unreasonable, having regard to any advertised rate or other representations made by the credit provider before or at the time the contract was entered into, the period of time since the contract was entered into and any other consideration the Court thinks relevant; or
(b) the change is a measure that discriminates unjustifiably against the debtor when the debtor is compared to other debtors of the credit provider under similar contracts.

AF
To whom it may concern,
Re: GE Money / AMS Violation of Consumer Credit Code
In May 2007 I took out a variable rate mortgage with Wizard Home Loans. The main reason I chose Wizard was because they had a lower interest rate than the banks. Furthermore, this had been the case since they commenced business in 1996, so I thought I was dealing with a reliable, reputable business.
I was happy with the service I was receiving from Wizard until the business was sold to Aussie on 27th February 2009. Since then, my mortgage has been managed by GE Money / AMS and service is now poor. I, along with thousands of other Australians have been adversely affected by the actions of GE Money.
GE Money failed to pass on any of the Reserve Bank’s 1% interest rate cut in February 2009, while the banks passed on the full 1% to customers. This has left former Wizard customers with a highly uncompetitive interest rate that is well above the interest rate charged by the banks. This has never occurred previously in Wizard’s 13 year history.
Section 72 of the Consumer Credit Code states the following:
72 Court may review unconscionable interest and other charges
(1) The Court may, if satisfied on the application of a debtor or guarantor that—
(a) a change in the annual percentage rate or rates under a credit contract to which section 59(1) or (4) applies; or
(b) an establishment fee or charge; or
(c) a fee or charge payable on early termination of a credit contract; or
(d) a fee or charge for a prepayment of an amount under a credit contract; is unconscionable, annul or reduce the change or fee or charge and may make ancillary or consequential orders.
(2) For the purposes of this section, a change to the annual percentage rate or rates is unconscionable if and only if it appears to the Court that—
(a) it changes the annual percentage rate or rates in a manner that is unreasonable, having regard to any advertised rate or other representations made by the credit provider before or at the time the contract was entered into, the period of time since the contract was entered into and any other consideration the Court thinks relevant;
Failure to pass on variable interest rate cuts is effectively changing the annual percentage rate under a credit contract, meeting the criteria for point 1a in section 72 of the Consumer Credit Code.
At the time I entered into a mortgage contract with Wizard Home Loans, their variable interest rate had always been lower than the banks. This was an 11 year precedent that Wizard had set at the time I entered into a mortgage contract. By not passing on the 1% RBA reduction, GE Money have breached point 2a of section 72 of the Consumer Credit Code as the interest rate change was unreasonable in comparison to historical rates.
It appears that GE Money’s actions are an attempt to force customers into refinancing with Aussie Home Loans. Further evidence of this is that the Deferred Administration Fee (DAF) will only be waived if customers refinance with Aussie.
GE Money has made it clear that they intend to exit the Australian mortgage market. They have no incentive to treat customers fairly as they do not wish to attract new mortgage customers.
I would like GE Money / AMS to be investigated in this matter.
Regards,

KP November 16, 2009

AF, jus wondering if you’ve had any response to your letter as yet?

CTTT directed me to Consumer Credit Legal Centre to find out if there is a way a complaint could be sent on behalf of a ‘group’ and apparently it doesnt happen often, but they certainly encouraged us to start with the petition site as a starter. Then this infromation can be sent to CTTT who will follow up to see if we have a case. Also, the Consumer Credit Code is only a ‘provision’ and not legislation. So GE cant be accountable for ‘breaching’ or violating anything. the provision is more like a guide that helps to protect consumers.

I was told that we will require a very strong case to show that the interest and other charges implemented were strongly ‘unjust’. We must strongly show that it was ‘unreasonable’ on the following grounds: -

(a) it changes the annual percentage rate or rates in a manner that is unreasonable, having regard to any advertised rate or other representations made by the credit provider before or at the time the contract was entered into, the period of time since the contract was entered into and any other consideration the Court thinks relevant;
or
(b) the change is a measure that discriminates unjustifiably against the debtor when the debtor is compared to other debtors of the credit provider under similar contracts.

I still think we do have a strong case here.

Mitch November 16, 2009

Sounds good lets all do it, how do we start this group complaint?

KP November 16, 2009

Hi Mitch,

We are going to start by creating a ‘petition’ on the ‘petition website’ i found recently (please refer to my nov 14 posting :))

Bascially its a website where people can create a letter of complaint or petition using a template, then everyone can put their signature and comments online to support the petition. Im in the process of compiling all different pieces of info from the forum to create the petition letter. After ive prepared some kind of draft i’ll post it on the forum for feedback, with suggested changes then i’ll paste it onto the petition site.

Once thats done we’ll get as many signatures as possible with comments then I’ll contact CTTT to see how we get this informaiton to them to review. Because ACCC and ASIC have deemed GE innocent of any wrong doing, our only hope now is to create a case for financial compensation due to GE imposing ‘unconsionable interest and charges’ since FEb 2009 and costs towards refinancing, hopefully supporting Section 72 of the Consumer Credit code.

AF November 17, 2009

KP, no response from them yet. I’m away for work at the moment, but when I get home I will give them another call

mitch mad November 17, 2009

Sounds good KP……Im still emailing the usual every second day..if they dont want the story then at least they could email me back….so ill just keep sending.

KP November 20, 2009

Hi Everyone,

Well ive finally put an ‘argument’ together and it hasnt been that easy :) Ive been advised by CTTT that the argument will have to strongly show that that Wizard/GE’s interest rate and ‘other charges’ to refinace were unconscionable or unreasonable in relation to the Consumer Credit code…
(a) ….. having regard to any advertised rate or other representations made by the credit provider before or at the time the contract was entered into, the period of time since the contract was entered into and any other consideration the Court thinks relevant;
or
(b) the change is a measure that discriminates unjustifiably against the debtor when the debtor is compared to other debtors of the credit provider under similar contracts.

Creditors are required by law to pass on any interest rate suggested by the RBA, so trying to argue that by not passing on the rate is ‘unjust’ or ‘unconsionable’ needs to be supported by substantial evidence.

I will upload content of the letter aimed to be submitted on a petition site and then submitted to Consumer Credit Tribunal for feedback and suggsted changes. It is lengthly over 2 pages but CTTT makes their determination on background information that is considered relevant to the case along with direct challenges to the credit consumer code.

KP November 20, 2009

sorry, i meant to say previously that CREDITORS ARE NOT REQUIRED BY LAW to pass on interest rate increase/reductions suggested by RBA

Jeanie November 20, 2009

You’re right KP - the Governor of the Reserve Bank said pretty much the same thing yesterday…

Keep in mind that any action that is taken in the CTTT is limited in its jurisdiction to NSW. They can only make determinations for residents of NSW. I think there are others here from different states. It may set a precedent though. If you are in another state start the process now using KP’s template.

I’m STILL not refinanced (officially) yet. Our new lender is ready to go but CBA seem to be holding back - they claim they haven’t received docs from GE money - even through they took over the loan 3 months ago.

Once we have sorted our refinancing out (and again, sorry if this sounds selfish) I’m more than happy to join any action. We have actually suffered financial losses due to the time it has taken…based on our association with GE money.

mitch November 21, 2009

Very good guys will wait for the letter to be uploaded then take some action…It may be better to email the letter to us and not let prying eyes on here got a copy ..ie GE.

KP November 21, 2009

Mitch, I was thinking the same thing, but trying to email everyone online could be tricky. I’d rather stay anonymous on this forum for the sake of prying eyes if you get my drift. So if anyone has an email address that is a little cryptic or doesnt disclose their full name in the email address, please let me know and i will send the word doc to that address to get the ball rolling. if that person doesnt mind putting this email address online then people can start sending their email address to that person. that way they can send the email out in a group email. otherwise, i’ll have to upload it on this forum for review…thanks

KP November 21, 2009

OR, i can just start uploading the ‘draft’ onto ‘the’ petition site and you can view it there. i think i have the ability to edit the letter once its online. so that way in the meantime you can start adding your signature and comments on that sight at the same time im making editing changes if need be.

i think once you sign the petition you can note how much extra money you’ve had to pay in interest from Feb 09 when the interest rate in australia was 5.26% (for arguments sake). take the amount extra you’ve had to pay until october before the rates started to go up. that way all calculations will be based on same information. i’ve already noted in my letter the ‘additional calculations’ to refinance for application fee, settlement etc so no need to include that in your comments.

Carmen November 21, 2009

My email address is carmslil@gmail.com
Just let me know what to do! Tar

mitch November 21, 2009

Just made one up ninja.tunes@hotmail.com

cheers

KP November 22, 2009

Thanks Mitch and Carmen for the email addresses,

It could take too long for everyone to view the document i prepared for feedback or ways to improve it. So, as a suggestion…..to start, Carmen, AF, Mitch and Ka - since you’ve been on this forum quite regularly over the past weeks and subitted letters to organisations already, would you be okay to send your email addresses to Mitch’s newly created email address ninja.tunes@hotmail.com?

I will email the document to Mitch and then it can be forwarded by Mitch to your email addresses in a group email. that way you will see my email address and can forward any feedback directly to me.

Then I will put the letter on the petition site to get started so everyone can read and if they wish to put their name against the petition they may do so…would this be okay?

mitch November 22, 2009

Sounds good to me.

KP November 22, 2009

Hi Mitch,

Thanks very much for that. I’ll start the ball rolling by sending you the letter i’ve put together for review. I’ve already started creating the petition site template. Once i put the letter on the site I’ll officially publish the site so everyone can access it.

KP November 22, 2009

Hi Mitch,

I have send the proposed letter to your email address. thanks

mitch November 23, 2009

Ok guys i have the email…email me and i can send to you.
will only send to Carmen, AF and Ka at this point….Any new people that email will need some kind of history on here or something so we can stop this going to unwanted places.

mitchmad November 23, 2009

Ok guys i have the email…email me and i can send to you.
will only send to Carmen, AF and Ka at this point….Any new people that email will need some kind of history on here or something so we can stop this going to unwanted places.

P.S KP has done an amazing job on this..well done

KP November 23, 2009

Thanks Mitch!

I have already uploaded the letter and overview onto the petition site. As the ‘author’ of the site, its only set to draft whilst im creating the site. Once we have some feedback I will be able to publish it and then you can start forwarding the petition link to others to ’sign’ and voice their support as well.

FYI - petition site suggests the letter starts with ‘we the undersigned’ first, so you will see paragraph 3 i think in your template has been moved to the first paragraph and changed slightly. still same content though. you will see this when the site is ‘open to the community’

Ka November 23, 2009

I can be got at kamagloire@gmail.com Ta!

Carmen November 24, 2009

AWESOME KP and Mitch! Let get these unfair bastards!!!!!!! Bring it ON!!!! If there is anything else I can do just let me know ASAP!

Carmen November 24, 2009

I have some time off at the moment due to a serious illness but I am willing to sit at my local shops to get signatures and anywhere else too. Are we able to do a hard copy or are we just doing it through the computer? Just wandering guys? Is that a goood idea or not? Oh, its very clear and articulate! A+++

mitch November 24, 2009

I think any thing and everything….I dont have a comp at work so can only check my emails etc Perth time once kids are in Bed daily….

BJ November 24, 2009

I have been on this site off and on guys and would love to see the letter if that is ok and help anyway I can so I’ll create a hotmail account tonight and would love to be on the list if possible

KP November 24, 2009

Hi All,

I aim to get this letter on the petition website by the end of this week, so I’m happy to keep taking suggestions on how the letter might be improved until then. Then, i’ll upload on the site for people to start ’signing’ the petition and adding their comments on the site.

Mitch - are you happy to send the email to BJ once the hotmail account has been created or would you prefer i sent it directly?

mitch November 24, 2009

Kool, you can send to Bj if you like….racking my brain how to get the message out there about what we are doing so we can get more names..

BJ November 24, 2009

Hi KP

My gmail (instead of hotmail) to send the letter to is
bridgetjonesbjc@gmail.com
I really want to fight this also so hanging out to read it and get involved anyway I can ASAP

Cheers

BJ

mitch November 24, 2009

Wonder if we can get any peole from this site?
http://www.notgoodenough.org

AF November 25, 2009

I have just started a new posting on http://www.notgoodenough.org if anyone would like to add to it. The title is “Former Wizard Customers Ripped Off by GE Money”. If enough people post, it may make the “top gripes” which will be emailed to thousands of site members in the monthly update. The old postings on that site were pointing the finger at Aussie Home Loans when it should clearly be pointed at GE Money.

KP November 25, 2009

Hi Mitch,

I cant see why we cant get people from the notgoodenough site. Once I publish the petiton site link on friday, we can put the link on the above site and direct people to the link if they wish to sign the petition that will evenutally go to the CTTT.

KP November 26, 2009

Hi All,

Just to advise I’ll be posting the letter on the petition site tomorrow. AF, BJ any last minute suggestions for change please feel free to let me know. thanks

mitch mad November 27, 2009

Kool, can wait, will wait for the site to fill up and will then start emailing the link to the TV stations every other day…

KP November 27, 2009

Hi Everyone,

I’m happy to announce the our petition site is up and running! This site will allow everyone to sign the petition online and add their personal comments as to how GE Money’s unreasonable rates and charges has affected you personally. All comments/signatures from this petition will be sent to the Consumer Trader Tenancy Tribunal (CTTT) to fight for financial compensation for additional monies paid in interest since Feb 09 and costs to refiance. Once you sign the petition it allows you to send the email link to 5 other friends/colleagues for their support to sign the petition.

THe following link will take you straight to the petition site page. Im not technical or a website designer but done my best to get this message out to the wider community. We need to try and get as many signatures and indiviual feedback in the next 2-3 weeks so this can be sent to the CTTT before time runs out. Pass the below link to as many as you can in the meantime. Please start adding your comments to the petition site!

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/GE-Money-Customers-Say-No-to-Unfair-Rates-and-Charges

KP November 27, 2009

By the way, when you get to the petition site page, click on ‘view whole petition’ and it will provide an overview of the situation. You will see just to the right in blue the word ‘letter’. this is the letter that will be sent to the CTTT along with the petition signatures. thanks

BJ November 27, 2009

Will check it out - thankyou!

KP November 28, 2009

Hi Everyone,

I urge you to please sign the petition and send the link to as many friends, colleagues and other website forums complaining about GE Money’s actions.

The petition link has already reached 37, and 36 of those being international responses which is great support to our cause! Hopefully we can start seeing some support from Australia.

KP November 28, 2009

Can someone tell me if it we should open up the petition signatures to Australia only or keep it international? Im not sure if this should be focussing on Australian residents or the more international the support the better….suggestions welcome

mitch November 28, 2009

I think the more the better…..Hope we can reach 1000……….
Is it possible that all try and make an effort to at least email this web link and the new sites web link to A current Affair and today tonight at least twice per week…

Well done on the web site.

KP November 28, 2009

Hi Mitch,

thanks for that. A colleague of mine was mentioning that the ABC tv network would probably be interested to take something like this up. There is less chance of there being a conflict of interest etc. Four Corners etc…. worth a try.

KP November 30, 2009

C’mon everyone. Im sure there’s more than 4 x people/families from Australia or who have been on this forum that is not happy with GE Money’s actions. If you are against the unfairness and think customers should be compensated for the addtional interest repayments and costs towards refinancing, please sign the petition on the below link. Power in numbers!

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/GE-Money-Customers-Say-No-to-Unfair-Rates-and-Charges

Carmen November 30, 2009

Well Done on the hard work done for the site (KP!). And thanks to the person (Sam I think) who sent me the GE stuff. Now hopefully we can do something about it seriously without mucking around (not that we have been). Hopefully we all can have one voice. Thanks again KP! Your a legend!

BJ December 1, 2009

well well would you look at that - interest rates tipped to go up again this arvo
How’s the Christmas spirit down at GE’s head office today boys - cold as ice I would imagine

merry frikkin xmas to me I’m thinking

BJ December 1, 2009

oh that’s just frikkin great isn’t it
RBA puts the rates up 25 basis points this arvo
then Westpac announced they are gonna go double that … so now I’m jst waiting to see what these muppetts at AMS do
Seeings as we are already a whole % ahead of everyone else - why don’t you just go ahead and put us out of our misery you selfish tirds and make us all sell up - that’s where me and my kids are heading
beautiful stuff on the 1st December - it really is

BJ December 1, 2009

I curse the day I walked into Wizard I really do

Ka December 1, 2009

Have Westpac really put their rates up double? I thought about jumping into a mortgage with them not long ago. Just goes to show what I’ve said earlier, that some people I know may have jumped from the pan into the fire as some of the banks may start acting like GE now they have 85% of the market in their pocket.

Every person I talk to vaguely connected to the housing market gives me the same old spin that sounds like they have their potential sale street ahead of my best interest. I refuse to pay LMI or fees to move. Anyone wanting my business will have to throw that lot in and not try to hide the numbers somewhere else within the deal.

My rate is higher than 1% above the other lenders BTW - more like 1.75%.

BJ December 1, 2009

they passed on a rate increase of a 45 basis points taking them to a standard variable interest rate home loan to 6.76 per cent
RBA only passed on a 25 basis point rise today though so they acted fast and went higher than was passed on by RBA
GE will no doubt be licking their envelopes tomorrow ready to go in the post, i’ll pop it on my mantle peice with my xmas cards

BJ December 1, 2009

what would be nice ladies and gents - down at GE
is if you perhaps gave us a break and didn’t pass this one on and perhaps let the other banks catch up to us for a while

Mitch Gone MAD December 1, 2009

Yeh right, there office junior is working o.t tonight to get the letter to our house for Friday so its there when you get back from working and it reminds you erm no i can afford to take the wife out for a meal tonight cuz i have to pay this shit……

Ka December 1, 2009

I reckon the banks are going to decide that their rates should be where GE’s are - just depends if GE let them catch up and give their poor overseas customer services workers a break, or decide they’ll have a policy to keep rates higher than any in the land.

SA Broker December 2, 2009

I wish the MFAA would discipline Gail Kelly and Westpac for unconscionable conduct in the way they treated brokers when slashing commissions and now are plundering bank customers.
To those brokers still using Westpac you are traitors to the rest of us that pledged over a year ago to send them a message.
It’s thanks to you, they now have dominant market share and can do whatever they like!

Ka December 2, 2009

It’s not even the big 4 banks anymore, I hear Westpac and CBA hold a massive majority of the mortgage business. What long term choice is there? They’re all starting to look like GE. O

n the radio today I heard a Westpac representative claim that their margin was the reason for the .45% increase as they have to attract deposits. He repeatedly ignored the interviewer’s claim that their profit margin had increased and last year profit was 4.6 BILLION dollars. It’s all out greed. Riches by ripping off the poor majority.

The interviewer claimed that Westpac was making 1.7 billion a year alone from the .65% in total RBA cuts it had not passed onto to customers. The bloke’s reply was ‘that you can make figures work for your argument’, but he never addressed the point.

They act like bestowing a mortgage onto us is a privilege rather than a contract. Reminds me of the time when Kings went through the land raising taxes on the poor and raping wenches. I still think the only thing they’ll listen to is everyone going 2 weeks into arrears - they’d buck up soon enough. Not enough to waste money going for repossession, especially when money become tight because the masses are restricting it’s flow.

mitch mad December 3, 2009

Thats funny, the news will show how westpac is over charging on the latest rate rise but never anything on GE……

P.S has it been mentioned on the partition site about this site?

KP December 3, 2009

Hi Mitch,

No this site isnt mentioned on the petition site or in the letter, but i can easily do that then copy/paste the above feedback and put it as an ‘appendix’ at the end of the document. The whole aim to get this letter on the petition site was a way of documenting feedback, whereby, the feedback can be collated and put into the report thats created when the petition time ends.

KP December 3, 2009

At this stage i think we’ve got 12 responses on the petition site from Australia. Im sure there’s thousands more thats been affected….

BJ December 5, 2009

Westpac .45 basis points, CBA .37 …. RBA was only .25
What will it be GE ????? I can hardly wait

mitch December 5, 2009

Death to them all if they raise beyond the RBA……To harsh? not really.

Louis December 7, 2009

GE went up 0.40%

Mitchmad December 7, 2009

Dirty, Dirty Dirty buggers…..this really is a head F—k……Need to vent time for another phone call to blast em….

Ka December 7, 2009

Surely this is proof that they’re shafting us. The reason they have been giving for their rates remaining high were to do with having no deposits to call on because they are not a bank.

Well, the main reason I’ve heard analysis give for Westpac’s actions are that they are looking to attract deposits after signing so much mortgage business. So what deposits are GE looking to attract if they are not a bank?

ms December 7, 2009

just signed your petition K P I hope some good comes of this cant believe the attitude of G.E. surely some government bodie can intervene and stop this continuing rip off what happened about the good old Aussie Fair Go…Every time the R.B.A. increases its rates G.E. take this as a green light to go even further.. I hope the pricks go broke before we do .. obviously they have no intention of staying in the mortgage game and are quite content to screw everyone stuck with them in the short term … In the long run every one will refinance out of G.E.

BJ December 7, 2009

you absolute mongrels GE - you really are
I’m going to have to work 5 days a week now and put my kids in permanent child care
You are as hideous as it gets

mitch December 7, 2009

Rekon a picket out side there office is all we can do now to get the media involved..

Scew you GE…..

CARLO December 8, 2009

No creative solutions for our misery with GE Money afterthe Wizard sell off. This is creating stress in the household - kissing my wife’s & my ‘nest egg’ goodbye.

BJ December 8, 2009

we have decided it will be cheaper to rent than to pay ridiculous repayments or the cost of refinancing
thanks for making our 1st home owners experience a trip to hell and back AMS

Philip Brown December 8, 2009

I agree with the comments above
GE Money trading as AMS Mortgage Service Pty Ltd are a pack of thieves.
I just received a letter from them as at 8th December 2009 saying my variable rate is now 7.47% (This is now 0.5% more than Westpac)

Scumbag Mark Bouris is an Australian businessman who is best known as the founder and chairman of ‘Wizard Home Loans’, Australia’s largest non-bank mortgage lender who sold the business to GE Money.

So Bouris made a fortune selling Wizard and his customers (mums and dads) who made built his business and trusted him get profoundly screwed. What scum he is and what scum GE Money is. Have a look at GOOGLE for GE Money and see the type of reputation they have.

They make the mafia look good. Real unethical scum who steal and Gouge their customers. A sad day when GE Money took over Wizard.
Destroying lives

Phil

BJ December 8, 2009

yep - they are destroying ours too Phil - this is the kind of shit that will really take it’s toll on families emotionally

Mitch December 8, 2009

They all deserve to die for inflicting this on people whilst they sit in there none mortgage paid off houses….

Jeanie December 8, 2009

Oh BJ - that is terrible! Everyone’s story here is terrible - and it’s not your fault.

We have finally settled on our refinancing on Monday after we first started the process nearly six months ago - but the hoops we had to jump through because of our association with GE Money were flabbergasting. Not to mention the associated costs, the extra money we paid in interest and the stress on our family while we had no idea what was going on…

I’ve signed the petition and I will be more than happy to do anything to help everyone else who has been shafted as a result of their association with Wizard/GE money.

This story was in todays Daily Telegraph .I don’t want to panic anyone though. I’m pretty sure the GE Money bastards wouldn’t go that far. If they even tried….

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/property/lenders-ruthlessly-taking-sydney-families-to-court-to-repossess-their-homes/story-e6frezt0-1225807860883

BJ December 9, 2009

oh my god has anyone seen the article above
I’m very very concerned

Kevin December 9, 2009

There are major differences in what the bank’s can do when they are dealing with a commercial loan in the case above and what they can do if it’s an owner occupied home. Home loans are generally written over 25 to 30 years, where commercial loans are usually much shorter.

Many commercial loans also have the lender retaining the right to ask for repayment in full at any time. The right to full repayment is exceptionally rare in the standard home loan contract, unless the loan is in default.

Check the wording of your loan contract. It’s also important to make sure your loan does not go into default.

mitch December 9, 2009

Hi, I erge people to draft up a short copy and paste email with you current position and links to this and the partition site and email it to you local newpapers.. May be they will print something, and we can get the word out there about the partiotion web site….Cheers Mitch.

Ka December 9, 2009

yeah, that looks like a very poor article to me.

Now the banks are playing up, the gap between their behaviour and GE is getting smaller which highlights my point that for those of us in a position to re-finance that did jump, might have jumped too soon. My monthly payment appears to be something like $100 a month extra with GE than it would be with another lender. Would it have been worth the $6000 required for me to refinance?

Every bank or broker I’ve spoken to has said the same things and none of it in my interest - all they want is my business as they keep a firm eye on their targets. My mortgage is providing a home and big leg up for my 8yo daughter when I kick the bucket, but professional advice only ever seems to treat these things like a stock market investment - despite the GFC no changes whatsoever in the advice a bank will give you.

BJ December 9, 2009

got my .40% rate rise today AMS
thanks a lot - I’ll pop it under the xmas tree

BJ December 9, 2009

actually no - I’ll wipe my backside with it next time we need toilet paper and can’t afford it

BJ December 9, 2009

Spoke to our bank manager today (who we are trying to refinance with) and she is 6.28% variable and we are 7.06% with AMS (also know as ATE MY SAVINGS)
So we are still .78% higher than what we could get with a BIG bank which makes my blood boil
however - the cost of refinancing v’s the money we are being robbed of with the higher interest rate still creates great debate ….

BJ is PO December 9, 2009

oh and letter today from AMS states we can call our lending manager with any questions
and who would that be exactly?

Carmen December 9, 2009

We got our kick in the guts today as well! Its got to the point where I am expecting one every month or even weekly now. Its absolutely disgusting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BJ is PO December 9, 2009

please god tell me there is someone else out there with a whopping loan around $300,000 going through this it will make me feel better

Carms has had enough!! December 9, 2009

Dont worry BJ! Our loan is $375,000 darl and we are stuck with the wankers! We are going through the same shit as you! Its f@@@@@@d isnt it! Thoughts are with you hay! I know how you feel!

mitch is gonna kill December 9, 2009

$340.000 for ours brought at the peak Jan07..have seen not seen my house price go up and there is 4 of us in a 2 bedroom willa…My 1 year old and 3 year old share the same room…My account still shows i owe erm erm oh $340.000…with rates like this to actually pay it off on my income alone is impossible…

Even if my house price went up by 80k i would be happy, but no…………… Yes i also got the letter from AMS today..Will call em tomorow and blast them, will make me feel better anyway..

Ka December 9, 2009

7.06&?!?? That’s the other thing that pees me off with GE. My rate is 0.5% higher than even other GE customers and they can’t even tell me why.

I’ll pay them when I feel like it.

KP December 10, 2009

Hi All,

If you can push as many people to the petition site and make comments that would be great. My aim is to get this ball rolling and send it to the CTTT next week around 15th Dec 09. I will attach all the comments in the petition and try to copy/paste the comments made in this forum. not sure if the forum comments will be read/taken as anything concrete when i submit it, but can’t hurt.

CARLO December 10, 2009

Hello fellow GE Money SUFFERERS !!

Is there any chance of - a Class Action - against Wizard/GE Money ??? Would be interesting IF we could !!

AF December 10, 2009

Dear executives of GE Money,

Thankyou for your delightful letter informing me that GE Money needs my money more than I do. I hope my additional contributions of 1% in February, 0.15% in April and 0.15% this month can be put to good use in your “Save the fatcat executives bonus” campaign. Unfortunately I cannot contribute any more than the 1.3% p.a. or $300 per month that has been added on top of RBA changes since February due to the HFC (Household Financial Crisis).

I hope you enjoy your Penfolds Grange, king prawns, lobster, oversized roast turkey, caviar, truffles, and fresh christmas pudding by your pool overlooking the harbour on Christmas Day. I will be having spam, lemonade, and home brand ice cream to ensure that your Christmas is one to remember. It’s lucky for me that there is an oversupply of red wine this year as I may have enough change to splash out on one of those $2.50 clearskin bottles.

I have also cancelled my one and only holiday for the year at Christmas to ensure that you do not miss out on a first class bed on your flight, limousine transfers, daily massages, and cocktails on the beach at sunset.

Congratualtions on a job well done in minimising the reduction in GE Money’s profits during a global financial crisis. We understand that the GFC was caused by mismanagement and rogue trading practices of financial institutions and investment bankers such as yourself, but no matter what happens, we will save your bonuses.

Merry Christmas and best wishes,
Your malnourished and overworked slaves.

BJ is PO December 10, 2009

jeez they pump the letters out - yesterday and today - I’m starting to get wonder whats going on when one dosen’t appear in the mailbox

BJ is PO December 10, 2009

jeez they pump the letters out - yesterday and today - I’m starting to wonder what the $%#& is going on when one dosen’t appear in the mailbox

BJ is PO December 10, 2009

oh well seeings as I buggered that up and entered it in twice only swearing the 2nd time round to express my true feelings towards these people at this point in time - I may as well have a crack at a 3rd swipe for today
I love the sound of a class action Carlo but I’m not hopeful
Ka that’s total BS that they are charging u more interest

Luke December 14, 2009

Hi all,

I heard Mark Bouris on MMM in Sydney today. He has formed a new lending centre Yellow Brick Road homeloans or something!

I am suprised this was allowed given the way we have all been left off after his former company, Wizard!

BJ is PO December 14, 2009

oh well that’s it then - I will definitely be refinancing with then

BJ is PO December 14, 2009

oh hang on - I just had brain failure for a nano second

Ka December 20, 2009

Anyone else get the GE letter explaining changes in the redraw facility and highlighting when it could be refused? I also noticed something about if the LMI is cancelled.

Why, and how, could an LMI get cancelled?!??
They’re preparing for something, this mob.

BJ is PO December 20, 2009

Ka do you mean existing LMI against our current loans as in they could take our homes?
Or do you mean cancelling the the discounted LMI being offered if we refinance through an aussie broker? (with the waived DAF)
I’m confused
I didn’t get any letter
But now I’m really worried - worried sick

Anna December 20, 2009

Anyone noticed in this letter where is sign “Yours Sincerely” there is no name only fancy signature, so we don’t really who made this decisions and who is responsible for it. Have look, no name…

BJ December 20, 2009

Can someone please explain to me what this letter means?
I don’t understand and I’m really really worried
Does this mean they are going to cancel existing LMI and we are being forced into paying for more with a time deadline - I don’t understand any of this stuff and I’m really scared

BJ December 20, 2009

If anyone has the time can they type up the contents of the letter

Ka December 20, 2009

I’m at work at the moment and have the letter at home. I’ll try and dig it out, although I may have already thrown it into recycling as it didn’t look to be anything that would apply to me, but who knows.

It mainy explained criteria when they may refuse a request to redraw funds. The LMI bit, I’ll have to re-read, but it did not mention any action they are going to take, but rather something you’d have to read between the lines for and I’m not knowledgable enough to work that out.

It was making references to something else that covers their backside and one of them was something like’… if the LMI falls short or is cancelled’, but wait until I can dig it out and write it up accurately.

I’m late with payments sometimes but up to date now, so I figure they can’t do anything while I’m paying it.

Ka December 21, 2009

Important notice:
Changes to your Contract Terms and Conditions
AMENDMENT TO REDRAW PROVISIONS

…to become effective from 15 January 2010

A new clause 5.5 “Agreement to make Redraw Advance” and clause 5.6 “Discretion to Refuse a Redraw Advance” will be included in your terms and Conditions…

Clause 5.5 Agreement to make a Redraw Advance
We may in our absolute discretion approve your Redraw Request etc.. (doesn’t seem different from the current arrangement)

Clause 5.6 Discretion to refuse a Redraw Advance
We may refuse a Redraw Advance for any reason, including:
a) if you are in default…or have been in default…at any time during the the prior 12 months

(seems fair enough as are b) and c), but again, I’m sure they are all the current arrangement, so maybe they are stated to hide d) and e) a little bit).

d) If the value of the property has reduced; or

e) If , for any reason, the Lender’s Mortgage Insurance policy is avoided, cancelled, reduced, or is, in our reasonable opinion, insufficient.

Hence my question why, and under what circumstances, would a LMI policy be reduced or cancelled? It’s already been paid and surely forms it’s own contract. Anyway, e) is most certainly about repossession, and the amendments must be about plugging holes they’ve encountered in possessions (is only my guess, so don’t panic on my account).

Letter finishes with…any questions please contact us on 1300 650 921 and yes, there is an unreadable signature with no printed name - I’ve decided is Stan Clen. So, Stan Clen…expect some calls.

AF December 22, 2009

This doesn’t look too bad to me, although a number of people will be affected by d as their house value could be much lower than what they owe on it. They are protecting themselves against defaulters by locking in any repayments made. If you are in the situation where you have been in default any time in the past 12 months or your property value has dropped and may need a redraw at any time soon, it might be worth looking at reducing your repayments to the minimum amount and leaving that extra money in the bank (a high interest account of course).

This is only an assumption, but an LMI policy could be cancelled if you breach any of the terms of the LMI contract. I haven’t looked at mine since I first read and signed it but you should have been notified if there was any cancellation or change on the policy.

Definitely give them a call if you think any of this will affect you.

Kevin December 22, 2009

From reading the amendments, the cancellation or voiding of the LMI would be grounds not to approve a re-draw. If you’re not going to use re-draw, then the change will have no effect at all.

I don’t see the cancellation or voiding of LMI having any other effect.

Hope that helps people sleep a little better.

Ka December 22, 2009

Most people won’t need their LMI, but you don’t want it cancelled either do you? Just like most people won’t need their car insurance but it should be there just in case. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an LMI document, much less my own. I’ve always been told it belongs to the bank and is none of my business.

LMI is the biggest rort going. Bank’s insurance that you pay for, and in the last recession (admittedly UK, don’t know about Australia), the banks still pursued people after repossession for the difference in the amount covered to the sale price which was inevitably lower, BECAUSE it was a recession.

Seems you pay for their ineptness as well as your own.

AF December 22, 2009

I agree LMI is a rort. I am going to have to pay it again soon as I am trying to refinance. I’ve had enough of being ripped of by GE Money. The only time I think it is ever used is when a house is sold by a bank for less than what is owing to claim the difference. A bank can’t take a hit of $10000 - 20000 in a very small percentage of defaults when they are making billions of dollars in profit each year?

Kevin December 22, 2009

LMI has made it possible for people to enter the property market years earlier than was the case 20+ years ago. Prior to LMI (for those of us old enough to remember) the only way you could get a home loan was to have 20% deposit. Back in those days loan approval was fairly simple. No 20% deposit, loan declined. Loan repayments exceed 30% of income, loan declined.

If the bank doesn’t get their funds back after a home is sold, it’s not the bank that chases you. The bank get their funds from the insurer. The insurance company does the chasing to get the funds back.

Due to regulations by APRA, if we didn’t have LMI, there would be very little lending above 80% LVR. Investors who buy the loans would want to be paid a higher return on mortgages that were at a high LVR and not mortgage insured, pushing loan costs above 80% LVR much higher than standard home loan rates.

AF December 22, 2009

Kevin, that all makes sense and it sounds like you may have some detailed knowledge of how it all works (industry experience?). Are you able to explain why we have to pay the same insurer again when we refinance with a different lender, or why a proportional amount of LMI is not refunded? If I sell my car I am refunded the balance of the 12 months insurance I have paid. Also, can you explain why GE Money have increased our interest rates above the RBA blaming higher cost of funding, when they have not funded any new mortgages in Australia since the start of the year?

Ka December 22, 2009

Yep, my apologies for that error - the insurance company chases you for the money, but they shouldn’t be allowed to do so.

LMI did pave the way for more people to enter home ownership, but as most people do not default on their loans it’s about time the whole thing got fine tuned. More people taking out loans, more money being lent, more profit being made. The approval of a loan should include all the required risk-management needed, then maybe banks wouldn’t be offering things like 100%+ mortgages.

I’ve heard it said that LMI is discounted because people move their mortgages on average after 5 years. Sounds a bit lame to me, but even if that’s the case, GE has placed me in a position where I have to re-finance, (leaving me liable to LMI for the third time in 5 years - none of it because of bad finances), so they should pay my LMI - more so, as I was a Wizard customer. I’m not coughing up $6000 to refinance when they are the ones who not only don’t want my business, and are crapping on me in the meantime to force me to leave.

I’ll leave if they pay my fees and LMI, otherwise I’ll stay and be a problematic customer, until I can move on my terms. It’s been a while since I checked but I think I’m paying a $100 a month more than I should with GE. Does it make sense for me to pay out $6000 in fees and LMI to re-finance because they want me out? That’s 600 months of over-payments? I can’t be the only one with these numbers, so some people are jumping just because GE are telling them to.

For those with huge pay-out numbers I feel for you - get out when you can!

L3nder December 22, 2009

Many GE customers used their mortgage like a personal overdraft (there are advantages to doing this). AMS encouraged this by allowing features that made this easier like direct salary crediting, mastercard ATM access to the mortgage etc.

For all those that were enticed into using your mortage in this way the letter you recieved means its time to stop. IF you read clauses c or d in the letter it says something about the trust account not having sufficient to meet the redraw request. What that means basically is if the trustee in this case GEL Nominees (General Electric Limited Nomonies) who your mortgage documents will show as a lender, runs out of money, they dont have to make the redraw. How can this happen? GE Money stops funding it. SO basically this is an out for GE to stop redraws at anytime it feels it wants to. Even scarier for those of you that have huge savings in your home loans tucked away for a rainy day (many people do this because its more tax effective than having hte money in a bank term deposit). Take it out now and put it back into the bank term deposit.

Further you will notice the clause that says if there is a drop in hte value of your property. You naturally assume the drop has to be significant and put them in a worse position than when you took out the loan….but the clause does not say that. It says they are allowed to deny the request if there is a drop in the value, any amount.

There are rumours in the industry that mortgage insurers were denying GE claims.

AF

I have been told by GE as far as they are concerned, the LMI has nothing to do with you, they are the insured even though you paid for it.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but if you are stuck in a GE mortgage and you have redraw available, take it out now and make the minumum payments, this looks like step one of a much bigger conspirarcy.

Ka December 22, 2009

L3nder: How can the insurer not pay out the lender’s claim?

Customer defaults, bank repossesses, insurer pays claim for shortfall. And in a recession, when defaults go up, there’s likely to be a shortfall which is the whole point of the insurance, isn’t it?.

I can only think of only 2 reasons - bank lent money to someone it should not have (like $400,000 to someone on Centrelink payments for instance), or they lent money on a house that wasn’t worth even 5c (this must happen, the way I’ve seen valuers value property in the past.

Either way, it seems like the LMIers rort the banks too - they should be making sure these 2 points are satisfactory before taking the customer’s money. I bet there’s a kick back involved in LMI, in which case suck it up GE.

Can you give us a heads up? Where could things be going from here?

Kevin December 23, 2009

Apologies for the long reply. There will be others with better knowledge who may be able to explain better and correct anything that may be inaccurate.

Working out pricing for insurance premiums is in the realm of actuarial studies. Part of the data to produce the premium will be the average loan life. If the insurer allows the loan to be rolled over to another facility and remain covered by the same policy, then the average loan life will increase. This increases the risk and reduces the income to the insurer. Premiums will then be likely to increase.

Remember, that for every claim made against the insurance, the mortgage insurer is left trying to get funds from someone who has not been able to make their mortgage payments. It’s been my experience, that when things get really tough, the mortgage payments are the last to be missed. The chance of recovering money for the insurance company is very small. Each claim would come close to a total loss for the insurer.

As for why funding costs can increase when no new loans are written, I haven’t done any research on GE, but can give an insight to what happens in general. How you borrow $1b is very different to how you borrow $100k. When GE and other lenders get their funds, they don’t buy money with an agreement that they have to pay it back in 30 years. Their loan terms are usually much shorter, say 3 years.

Lenders will buy money over 3 years and then refinance or rollover that debt. Margins for risk have greatly increased and they now have to pay more to renew or refinance their debt.

RMBS (Registered Mortgage backed Securities) were being purchased around bank bill swap rate (BBSW) plus 0.15% in 2007. These loans are now due for refinancing and the rates on offer now are closer to bank bill swap rate plus 1.30%. (Westpac just priced $2b 2.6 year paper at 1.30% above swap.) Even though no new loans have been written, the overall cost of the funding pool is increasing.

Even banks with a good deposit base are finding their costs rising. The average Term Deposit Rate in June 2007 was 2.05% below the cash rate. In June 09, that had dropped to just 0.25% below the cash rate. Bank deposits are costing them more. This would affect banks, not GE as they get little funding from deposits.

This means that it’s costing the lender more to keep the same loans on the books, even if no new loans are written. It’s not just a GE thing, it’s all the banks and non-bank lenders. Don’t forget, 3-4 years ago the banks dropped rates greater than the Reserve Bank as their funding costs were falling faster and they were competing for business. Rates went lower than they should have and have now rebounded.

Predicting future moves is always hard, but I believe that the margins may rise further as more cheap 07 & 08 money needs to be replaced with more expensive money. However, once the pre GFC funding is replaced, margins should then start to reduce. Improved access to RMBS markets by non-banks will place more competition pressure on the majors and margins will start to come down again. I doubt if we will see bank bill swap plus 0.15% again, but I suspect we will get below 1.00%.

The problem with predictions, particularly in financial markets is that no-one really knows. There could be something come out tomorrow that makes a hash of any predictions made today. Who would have guessed yesterday that Russia would announce they are adding the $A to their strategic reserves? This could now push the $A higher than previously estimated.

Ka December 23, 2009

It’s not just the money side of business, - that’s easy to explain. Where is customer services and/or appreciation. I can accept the science of economics (even if I don’t understand all of it) for our and GE’s predicaments, but I don’t appreciate our current treatment at their hand.

Firstly, I’d bite the bullet more if GE even treated us with a bit of sophistication and explained it the way you did. It would show respect for us as customers, I’d take it LESS personally and we could scrutinise this whole mess from an economics point of view rather than a ‘ripping me off point of view’.

There are people worse off outside of GE, but I’m not about to look at the up side of my situation compared to others when GE is treating us like trash and an annoyance they want to go away, with their big boot in our backside.

They wouldn’t win us all over, but they haven’t even tried. Part of the problem was their greedy, poor management and they should be handling it better now it’s blown up in their faces.

mitch mad December 23, 2009

Am now back on line after it taking 2 weeks to get my new ISP and home phone number sorted…Just incase you had thought i had won the lottery, paid these twats out and left the forum….

L3nder December 23, 2009

What Kevin has said is very reasonable and would apply in the case of most Australian Multi-Nationals, but does not in this case.

GE has announced its intention to leave the mortgage business in Australia. It has suffered huge losses for a number of reasons. The first and most obvious is the sub prime crash in the US, although Mark Bouris has been in the media when it started saying Wizard customers have nothing to worry about because it’s parent company GE has the largest balance sheet in the world. A number of spokesmen for GE came out and said that because of its size it was impervious to the crash.

THe logic of this was that it did not need to sell bonds to fund mortgages, it had enough of its own money. But in hindsight they appear to have misslead the market into taking mortgages with them.

The other two reasons it has lost money are as follows.
1/ It paid far too much for Wizard/AMS. It has been rumored in the media that GE paid $600 million for Wizard/AMS having bought it from Bouris/Packer consortium. It just recently sold Wizard to AUssie for a reported $20 million. It has run down the AMS/AFIG book by raising rates above market for all its Non Wizard customers….(Not sure who but GE also fund non Wizard lenders like but not necessarily including Homeloans Limited, Mortgage House,Yes). So many customers have left and been encouraged to leave that the book would be a fraction of its original value. Also unbeknown to GE, Packer negotiating to buy a similar size business called Interstar for a rumored $85 million through his listed company Challenger. So GE are pissed off. Bush Administration showed us what happens when you piss off Big Ugly Americans. Belive me, that is the culture of GE atm.

2/ Most Insurance companies pay out on claims when an indiviual disaster occurs. ie, lightning hits a tree and it caves your roof in. But when there is a hail storm and insurance companies face the potential of mass claims, they look to weave and duck to aviod the payments, ie Acts of God are not covered (anyone remember that one :) ). Well while Australia did not lend to sub prime borrowers in the same way, we did get very tardy on credit (as we do every 10-12 years; BOnd in the 90’s). While proerty prices were going up, everything was fine, but it looked like the going up was never going to stop (like every time). So we developed products with the help of mortgage insurers called No Docs, Low DOcs, Reverse Mortgages, and get these names…”One Day ABN” for those that claimed to be self employed but did not have an ABN, they could go down and register one to prove they were and get the “One day ABN” product. There were 95% with no need to prove geniune savings, there were Lo Docs to 90% where you did not have to prove you could service the debt. There were 97% loans where you could also add the cost of the mortgage insurance. GE sold most of these products. Then the shit hit the fan. Sub Prime crises, rising rates, falling proerty prices and a huge book of loans sitting on the edge. I am wondering what the mortgage insurers are saying to GE.

There was a today tonight report showing that it first started raping it’s non wizard lenders by attacking their clients and forced many to go bankrupt. I never heard of them but the guy they interviewed was from a comapny called Cornerstone and GE had just raped his clients by increasing their rates by an additional 1% which caused him to go broke lose his business and his house.

The above senario applied to the whole market not just GE. Most Australian Lenders have managed it with a great deal of finese by showing customer empathy, keeping a lid on their losses and either gracefully pulling out (ala Maquarie Bank) or battoning down the hatches and trying to look after their existing customers. GE has no motivation to do this, it has annouced it is going, it has been hurt and is very pissed and will try to salvage as much money from each of your mortgages as it can on the way out. From the day Michael Douglas announced Greed is good and profit is all that matters not much has changed 30 years on.

L3nder December 23, 2009

I’m sorry, it just dawned on me that what you need for this fight is numbers. By limiting the petition to only x Wizard customers. GE were wholesaling to around 60 other Non GE owned lending companies and their customers have been even more severly affected than x wizard. So you need to maybe in my humble oppinion be more broad along the lines of GE Money have unfairly increased rates to borrowers whos pricing they control by well above the rest of the market indiscrimnintly to try to salvage losses.

L3nder December 23, 2009

And Lending News if you want to buy articles from me send me an email ;)

coetsee December 31, 2009

The Beginning The working life is already tough enough, but the worries of being out of work was even tougher. The unsecured working environment have prompted me to search the internet for an alternative source of extra income so that I could learn how to Make Money Work for me and be Financially Independent. I listed down a number of Free Internet Business Opportunity Ideas while researching ways how people earn money online while working-from-home…….

Thanks N Regards
Coetsee

onlineuniversalwork

Jane January 1, 2010

PIGS.

BJ January 1, 2010

Hanging out for my loan anniversary to tick over shortly so we can pay our new hideously monthly repayment on the house with such a STUPID interest rate, silly silly people - such a beautiful way to start 2010 GE it really is - thanks, from the bottom of my heart, oh whoops, arse

mitch mad January 1, 2010

To be fair i have never had so much hate in me as i do now….I hate having all this hate………….Some ones head need to role for this, any one know any names of the mangers etc?

mitch mad January 3, 2010

I called them on the 16th of December to get a the last 6 months of statesments mailed to me…Guess what?, nothing in the post. I then called them again last Thurday to put couldnt get through becasue of the high volume off callers…So i called the late and missed payment number and got through straight away. That figures..They told me that they will try posting it again…..The extra 6K i pay per year in fees than other lenders, really should support a piece of mail to me…,.Screw you TWATS….MAKE MAD, with your crap customer i dont giove a sh_t rip you off attidude……..AGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BJ January 3, 2010

that is so bad that you got thru straight away on the missed payment line
So so so so so so so bad
hideous

Carms has been tipped over the edge! January 4, 2010

As I am seriously ill I now have to approach the dreaded and hope for help as I cant work! I am so embarrassed and disgusted that I am in this position! And stressed that I will lose my house. I have been thinking bad thoughts. No one at GE cares and never will! I HATE them all.

mitch mad January 4, 2010

NO way thats so sad Carms, plzzzzzzzzzzzzz let us know what the out come is for you. They really do suck. F-CK you GE.

L3nder January 4, 2010

Carns,

Hang in there, there are lots of people working behind the scences to correct this.

Cases like this have been corrected years later, I remember State Bank has to write off a whole lot of personal loans in the 80’s 5 years after they had written them which ment they had to refund millions back in repayments.

Westpac had to do something similar after trying to reposses property after talking people in foreign currency loans and the dollar subsequently dropped. The point is many times the situation is corrected, sometimes years later. In this case, I know GE is fighting multiple battles.

THe more the regulators hear complaints like these, the more pressure they are under to ask GE to please explain.

If you want to know names of GE exec’s in Oz, try goggle.

It does happen.

BJ January 5, 2010

Please god let the above happen

mitch mad January 5, 2010

Google it is, will email you all personally when i get some names and we can bombard them.

Carms has been tipped over the edge! January 5, 2010

I just want want everything to be OK! I have been stressing about what happened with Wizard and not knowing the security of my main asset which is my house. Now I am in a wheelchair you look at things more closely and now am even more stressed because I have LOST CONTROL of everything including my financies which I used to pride my self on. I have stress coming from everywhere and really am overwhelmed. Now I have to deal with talking to everyone and I need to be strong but its really hard. Thanks Mitch and L3nder for your words. Its much appreciated.

BITE ME GE January 5, 2010

had to laugh when I got a xmas card from Aussie who we signed up with a few years back (wizard then)
I wasn’t aware I was still a client of theres
Merry Xmas huh?
I regret the day I walked into a Wizard branch - save yourself a stamp next yr boys - give ya the hot tip right now

BITE ME GE January 5, 2010

funnily enough tho no xmas card from my new lender GE

mitch mad January 5, 2010

Hey Carms, we really need you story heard from the new…Have you sent any emails to the chanel 7, 9 and 10 news? email the links also…..

KP January 6, 2010

Hi L3nder,

I’ve been in personal contact with several of the regular forum members about some possible good news with compensation for ‘unconscionable charges’ via Consumer Legal Centre (CLC NSW). At this point its been suggested we wouldnt be able to win the ‘interest rates’ point, but certainly have a chance to fight the charges put on us to refinance. The solicitor advised we need at least 4-5 to form a group and be heard as a group by the CTTT. But all must be submitted individually with assistance from CLC with wording etc.

Hi Carms, Mitch, AF and anyone else interested to put forward a complaint for compensation for charges to refinance with help from consumer legal centre. Apparently once we receive info from CLC NSW, each of you will need to submit an individual application on the same day and a push will be made by CLC for a case to be heard as a group. please send your email address to ninja.tunes@hotmail.com for further updates if you wish to be involved.

By the way, we’ve had 74 people sign our petition which is good.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/GE-Money-Customers-Say-No-to-Unfair-Rates-and-Charges

mitch mad January 9, 2010

Hi KP, am trying to get on here as much as i can, but its hard with 2 little ones and working all hours etc….Should have time though next weeks as the family is away for 3 weeks and i can start it my end.

Hows this called them again about getting my 6 monthly statement as they said they had posted it out on the 16 th Dec. They actaully now posted it EXpress post..WOW….ah but in my post box on the same day was the letter telling me my interest rate had gone up….Any one else get one? or is this from last month?

mitch mad January 9, 2010

Oh and screw you AMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Broke and Sad January 10, 2010

We got our last interest rate rise at Xmas and have just hit the low 7’s with AMS
RBA meeting again in Feb tho - brace yourselves

Angry and Fragile January 30, 2010

RBA meeting on Tuesday arvo people - hold onto your hats

mitch January 30, 2010

Hi all, i am back home after working away for the last week and a bit, needing the O.T to pay for these lot……
Hold onto our hats… if these lot put the rate up, then they can have my house….i am claiming for Bankruptcy, can no longer afford the repaynemts….and it will happen….i am not taking this any more.

GE Fraud February 16, 2010

I’m not one of the Wizard customers but I did fall victim to the unscrupulous band of pirates called GE Money.

My home loan was with a non-bank lender who, without my knowledge, on-sold my mortgage to GE Money. I was told at the time not to worry as they were AAA credit rated and solid as a rock. I was horrified as in the business world I know what a pack of sharks the GE corporation can be (by the way my loan was full-doc).

Well, six months into my relationship with GE Money the GFC began and you all know the story from there. Prior to Christmas ‘09 my variable interest rate was 8.47%. GE Money had refused to pass on any interest rate drops since the crisis began and I was left paying on average 3-4% more than everyone on “historically low interest rates”.

It cost me ten thousand dollars to flush my dealing with GE Money down the toilet but I estimate I will get that back in the first twelve months of my new mortgage(with one of the big four banks), which is set at around 5.5%.

Be warned when dealing with non-bank lenders They are great when times are good but run for the hills in times like we are experiencing now. During my experience with GE Money I wrote letters to politicians (inc Wayne Swann)and government regulators all to no avail, the only mortage holders they see (or are concerned about) are the ones with banks. My non-bank mortgage providor was quite content to let me suffer and offered absolutely no help whatsoever, my refinance was organized entirely by myself.

mitch February 16, 2010

They are causing me so much grief at the mo, have been trying my hardest to refinance but am not able to do it….GE…..i hope and wish for the mangegment to die for the pain they have caused me and my family.

Carlo February 17, 2010

Good Morning, I ALSO have been trying my hardest to refinance but am not able to do it….GE !! No law against this ? i.e: Wizard sell off really frustrates me. Maybe I should change my name to IAN THORPE !!

mitch February 17, 2010

I have spent hours and hours getting all the paper work to refinance, for some twat to sit behind a desk and check on the net and not even come out to see how much our place is worth….I hate this….GE..DIE….

ka February 17, 2010

I still say we all coordinate going 2 weeks into arrears at the same time - how much worse can it get?

mitch February 18, 2010

Rekon if we get the numbers to do it and they lift the rate once more, its a must.

KP February 22, 2010

Hi Mitch,

Apparently alot financial institutions base their valuations on drive by’s rather than come in and have a look at the property. I was advised that it all depends on the institution. I know it might not be the answer, but you are well entitled to arrange your own valuation where the valuer comes to look at your place for a couple-few hundred dollars. If this helps to refinance, remember, we are still on the fight with Legal Centre to get refunds/compensation on the costs to refinance which ive been advised we have a chance of winning if i can get 4-5 interested.

I’ve had to bite the bullet and refinance the best way causing me least financial impact (if you know what i mean). I hate it, its terrible but its all i can do to get out of this mess. As soon as ive refinanced and there for a little while i’ll be searching to get out as soon as i can. Hopefully it will be happening in the next few weeks.

For all those who are refinancing and on the verge of financing, please let me know asap so i cant start moving forward on the pursuit with Consumer Legal Centre to push for the fight to seek compensation/refunds for our costs to refinance. If i dont hear back in the next few weeks, its okay I will still proceed as an individual.

mitch February 22, 2010

Cheers KP…all my options are closed now…am unable to refinance…….
……may have to look into my own house appraisel though.

Angry and Fragile March 2, 2010

look at that
rates up again at RBA today
truly beautiful stuff
time will tell fellaz, time will tell

mitch March 2, 2010

They best not even dare put them up……or that above the RBA…..I am all ready working day and nights to pay for there greed….

mitch March 5, 2010

wankers…..0.25% They take the piss, greedy gits, how would they like to be paying this rate on there own mortgage…..

** message edited by LC Team **

lovin those RBA meetings ... March 7, 2010

beautiful stuff
that takes my interest rate to 7.31%
time for the rental checklists I think …

ka March 8, 2010

I’m an old Wizard client. My interest rate has just gone up to 7.89%.

KP! Are you the lady that emailed me regarding what you’ve said above, about getting GE to paid the fees etc… for refinancing? I emailed back, but didn’t get a response. I’d be happy to contribute to that lawyer’s cost to see if it can be done.

kamagloire@gmail.com

KP March 8, 2010

Hi Ka,

Yes it was me. The Consumer Credit Legal Centre says we need 4-5 people willing to participate to put this forward as a group complaint. Once this happens, the legal centre can put forward for a group hearing to fight for reimbursement for costs to refinance. I need a firm 4-5 but i havent been told by others if they have /are refinancing.

I will contact the Legal Centre again tomorrow to see if i can get the ball rolling. it might be we cant fight until the 4-5 willing to participant have already/going to refinance.

I will let you know how i go…

thanks
KP

mitch March 8, 2010

I tried to refinance though Aussie, what a waiste of time and effort that was…..we are stuck with these jokers..

Ken March 9, 2010

Why would you get involved with the CCLC?
ASIC needs to have a real hard look at them and all the damage they have caused over the years to borrowers.

KP March 9, 2010

Ken, We’ve been through it all over the past year. We’ve submitted official complaints, lodgings to ACCC, ASIC, radio, petitions, tv…the whole lot and the result has been offical letters saying GE Money are in the clear. After everything we’ve been working on over the past year CCLC has been the only positive position we can try. This is whats been most positive after all the lack of support. Its an individual position. Not everyone has to do it, but its the most positive light we’ve had from all of them.

You are right ASIC does need to have a hard look, but they’ve wiped their hands of the situation …very sad indeed.

mitch March 9, 2010

I called AMS today and told them that we need to sell our house and go back to renting as we can no longer be a appart of there corrupt greedy affair….They told me its going to to cost $4,000 to get out so nothing left to do…we are going to sell and pay these bastartds out and go back renting……I am so down over this a feel like i am a nervous breakdown….They suck so bad….i hate them so so much.

can you smell that? can you smell the stink of GE rate rises? March 10, 2010

Surprise surprise
got my trusty old letter from GE today with that nasty little rate hike
much appreciated guys
like a frikkin hole in the head
keep up the good work

mitch March 10, 2010

Yeh i got myne, heres one for ya. every one keeps the letter in the envelopes and just do a return to sender, with no longer lives here on the front.

** message edited by LC Team **

mitch March 14, 2010

cheers for the edit this time LC and not the post deleted…….

Think my family is going to come to the rescue on this one for me to refinance, so i am all ears and trying to recoop some money to refinance…

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